Pink Poogle Toy Forum

Dear PPT,

There is a live chat going on at myfox utah.
http://www.myfoxutah.com/myfox/pages/In ... pageId=5.2

Just go here to where it says streaming live news, and click that and go to the live chat.

I've been reading the chat, and there is apparently a family member who is trying to get some information out about the lies of Murry Corporation and their refusal to drill a 30 inch hole from day one, which may have been more successful and prevented the deaths of the rescue team.

They would like to have a 30 inch hole with rescue capsule drilled from day one which was refused from day one, despite pleas from family. Family wants the hole drilled, even as a last resort, as this is the only way to recover the bodies.

There is now a petition to drill the hole.

Ugh, they should of just drilled the hole it couldn't have done much more damage than they have now.

On a side note a similar thing happened in Pittsburgh, PA last week. I didn't see the news so don't know exactly what happened other then that the mining corporation had the miners dig through the supporting wall of coal.

I am greatly anoyed and angered by this situation. I go to a college where a good chunk of the student body is majoring in geo engineering or mining (missouri-rolla used to be called the missouri school of mines). Many of my friends (graduates and people still in school) are looking to become miners. My own boyfriend plans to be a geologist. I know if these miners trapped were friends of mine, I'd be freaking out something feirce. I know what happens when your trapped in a mine...and I know at this point in the search there is little hope for survivors. Its a sad and horrible thought, but its reality. They have been trapped for well over a week now with no food or clean air. We know they have water but I dont know how quality it is.

My deepest prayer is that they find these miners alive and all is well with the world again...but I also have to consider the reality of things. This needs to be a lesson to mines all over the world that better safety measures need to be taken and rescue operations need to be much more prepared. These is no excuse for the amount of time it has taken to rescue these men.

myspace.com/saveoursix

I've talked to Chelle, who is trying to get some more support, or at least keep this in the news. Now the media isn't covering the story as much, just letting it fade away. We have to keep this in the media for the families. They at least deserve some closure and being told that the mine is going to be a tomb, isn't really closure for anyone.

They've begged for the 30 inch hole from day one, and if it had been drilled, Chelle may not have lost her cousin who went in looking for another family member. She has lost two family members now.

I wonder if the Murry Corporation even wants the bodies to be found. Obviously they'd have to do an autopsy and if it came back the six starved to death and it could have been easy to find them if they had just drilled a capsule hole, they'd have to answer to families as to why they didn't do the 30 inch hole as requested.

Well anyway, if they ever do find the bodies, there are going to be more questions and more media, which they may not want. They'd rather leave them entombed and for the public to forget.


myspace.com/saveoursix

If you'd like to show support that is Chelle's myspace.



I've just been told they are sending someone in after the equipment. Never mind the bodies or anything. OMG got to get the equipment out, can't lose the valuable equipment now. That makes me sick.

Guys, really. Do you think signing this petition is going to get those miners out of the hole?

I'm not educated in mining technology (and neither are any of you) but do the math. 30 inches is two and a half feet. That's almost the length of your arm. The area of that cross-section is 706.85 square inches, or 4.91 square feet. Multiply that by the 1500 feet they're supposed to be in the mine, and you have 7265 cubic feet of rock they would have to move just to get down there. They would have to move it up and out of that hole, and once they managed that, hopefully the miners would be at the bottom of that hole. Hopefully. It took them days to drill the 8.5 inch hole, if they had started working on this 30-inch hole, they STILL wouldn't be done.

I do know quite a bit about mining...since its one of the biggest majors at my old college. Our mascot is named Joe Miner for a reason (we're the UMR Miners)

Drilling a hole, camera or no camera, was never going to do much good. Drilling can also cause further collasp of the mine, making matters worse.

It is sad that there is no recovery effort for the bodies...but its kinda like this:

when a battleship sinks these aboard who do not float to the surface are generally left on board the sunken ship. Rarely were those boats raised up again. They serve as a sort of grave. A resting place for the souls it claimed.

At this point there is little hope for the miners to be found alive. They died doing a job they liked. Why not just let the mine serve as a grave and as an example for future mines to learn from.

we've lost 6 lives here. But from that we can learn to protect thousands more. The sadest part is that it ever happened in the 1st place.

My friends who are going into geology and mining have followed this story very closely. I hear about it daily from several of them. So trust me, their lives are not going unnoticed.

heres a bit from yahoo news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070820/ap_ ... Jq28JI2ocA

Really? Because from what I know about mining most miners don't actually LIKE their job.

And recovering the bodies and burying them CORRECTLY is a tradition that brings peace to families. It was the mining corporations fault that that mine collapsed, now they need to take ownership for what they've done and DO SOMETHING about it, even if it is something as "insignificant" as recovering the bodies of the workers.


Oh, and theonlysaneone, maybe this petition won't get the miners out of the hole, but it will show the families that people around the world actually CARE about their plight, and will make them stronger... they have a hell of a lot more pull than we do.

Well Murry has promised, and is on camera promising that he would get them out alive or dead. Now it seems as though no one wants to spend the money to go after the bodies. The families have been told to let the mine be their tomb, it is too expensive to go after them. But then there are rumors that Murry has called in some mine workers to secretly go in after the equipment left in the mine. Murry hasn't been seen for a few days, and is afraid to face the wrath of the families, so he pays his lackys to talk to the family.

For Murry the best situation is that they never find the bodies. That way, no one will ever know what really happened. Did they die instantly? Did they suffer starvation and dehydration? There are too many questions he would have to answer if they ever found them.
For him, the best situation is to hide out and hope this story fades from the public mind. He can then go in and get his equipment out and maybe find a way to avoid lawsuits and get his mine reopened.

So it makes sense to me that he'd rather the bodies not be found at all.

ok i have no clue about anyhting on mining but personally i find that this corporation is all capatalist. Im not saying that there is anyhting good or bad with capatalism, but I am just saying that they should give those trapped miners a proper funeral. Its hard for a family jsut to leave a loved one in a mine as their tomb. Each and every one of those miners should have a proper buriel that i personally think that the corporation should pay for. They could have prevented this from happening and they didnt, which somewhat holds them responsible.
I just have hope for te families and that they can give their loved ones some form of peace.

I have to jump in here on two counts:
1) in theory, I agree that a rescue basket should be used. No man should ever be left in a pile of rubble. However, using a rescue basket in a purpose-built hole has never been done in conditions such as this - the slope of the hill under which the mine lies is in many places up to or exceeding 20 degrees, which makes it for all intents and purposes impossible to quickly place a drilling rig capable of running a 30-inch bit for any depth beyond a few dozen feet. The weight of the bit and supporting equipment would cause it to slide off of the hill. In the case of the 2002 Pennsylvania rescue, the miners were only a few hundred feet below a flat field. Drilling a 30-inch shaft would undoubtedly take weeks, and given the continual shifts of the mountain, would likely require serious reinforcement which would take extra time.

2) the through-the-shaft rescue had to be performed for the reason above if it was going to be performed above. However, the reason that the mine collapsed on the rescuers is that it is exceptionally deep and the mountain itself is obviously very angry. My guess is that (though I don't know) the mine ownership chose to use retreat mining to recover the last of the coal in particular seams, which weakens the mine where retreating is being done, and also puts extra stress on the surviving pillars. It's a giant game of Jenga, and eventually, someone will die. Retreat mining should be banned unless new supports are placed in the caverns, IMO, though that isn't a current policy.

Both being said, I fear this may devolve into a debate.

Ok, I suppose there isn't much more to say anyway. Keep them in your thoughts. You may lock this thread if you wish.

Well, I'm no mod. I can say "Locked!" but it means nothing.

I think I came off harsher than I meant to. I do desperately want these men to be found alive.

I think everyone does Shapu. It would something that reminds everyone that miracles can happen. Sadly right now everything is so up in the air.

I agree that the miners should be found, but I definitely do NOT agree with risking more lives to recover the bodies.

I think it's very sad that they've been lost, but I don't pretend to know whether drilling this hole or doing anything else would've saved the miners.
I also think that even though mining is a very dangerous profession and the miners knew about the danger of being trapped, if their bodies are in a location where they can actually be reached, they should be recovered. In past situations like this, I recall hearing that the miners left behind notes for their families, so there are not just physical bodies in there--there may also be the last words of the miners. Like TOSO I think that other lives should not be risked to recover the bodies, but then again, every day in a mine is a risk...so anyone who chooses to go into that mine to try and get to the bodies is accepting that risk and those who choose to enter it should be allowed to try to recover the bodies if they want to.
If it's all down to money, well, I think that closure for the families is worth quite a lot. Granted I wouldn't/won't see those budget problems in action, but I think I'd be willing to put up with them.