Pink Poogle Toy Forum

Oh say can you see -- a la luz de la aurora?

The national anthem that once endured the radical transformation administered by Jimi Hendrix's fuzzed and frantic Stratocaster now faces an artistic dare at least as extreme: translation into Spanish.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12521196/

Well, I don't really see what the big fuss is... It's not really offical, and even so.. Canada has an English and French offical anthem...

Exactly.

I think what the major debate is that the reason there are so many Hispanics and Spanish speakers in America is because so many are illegal immigrants and kind of lacks acknowledgment of the problem and rather feeds it. Don't get me wrong I'm not racist or anything, in fact one of my best friends is Hispanic but people really should just take the citizenship test, instead of climbing the fence/crossing the river/whatever. And if I was going to another country I would learn their language instead of expecting them to learn mine.

Canada has two official languages -- yep, you guessed them; English and French -- so that statement doesn't really doesn't make any sense argumentively speaking.

Maybe. However, no one is trying to pass this as an offical anthem or anything like that. I think it was to get people to rally... As I recall, there is no offical language of the U.S.A, although English is spoken the most.

Ugh, I hate it when people use the words racism and illegal immigration in the same subject. I don't care if you're German, Irish, Mexican, or Pakistani; if you're entering my country illegally I don't want you here and you do not belong here.

Secondly, I agree 100% with your last statement. If you don't want to enter legally don't enter at all, and if you want to live in this country learn the language, don't expect other people to learn yours.

Another thing that makes me mad is the fact that the people who protested the once pending legistration to make illegal immigration a felony (I strongly supported it) carried a MEXICAN FLAG with them all the while trying to gain the right to permanently live in America!

If you want to become a permanent citizen of a country you should have loyalty towards that country. Carrying another country's flag inside of America -- when trying to gain citizenship no less -- sure doesn't show loyalty to me.


It's true that the United States doesn't have an official language, however knowing basic English is a required to gain citizenship so that in and of itself makes English as official as unofficial can get.

-- EDITED TO ADD CONTENT --

Wow, some people here really need to check their privilige!

I'm really not sure what problem people have with this...? Oh no! It's different! IT'S BAD!

Alright, I've recieved a few complaints, so I'll go ahead and say this:

If this topic degenerates into flames, or a race war, it WILL be locked and offenders WILL be striked or, if the offence is bad, banned. You've been warned.

Apparently Bush isn't too thrilled about this. It's about frickin' time he did something, too.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=639502006

I doubt this can have the same musical value as it does in English. Usually when things are translated, they lose some of the poetic quality they had in the original language. Francis Scott Key's work is no exception.

I think this quotation sums up the whole thing:

Do you know how difficult it is for people to apply for immigration papers and go through that process? My aunt's been here for about 15 years and has yet been able to do anything to bring her daughter here. Also, when you're 30+ it's not always so easy to learn a new language. Most (illegal) immigrants don't have the resources. And no immigrant is expecting Americans to learn Spanish. It's just a translation, not a big deal.




Who's expecting anyone to learn Spanish?


So someone can't show pride for their country? Just because a person moves to America does not mean that they should have to give up their culture and ideals. It's okay to be proud of something you love. And just because you carry around a flag from your native country does not mean that you can't have loyalty towards America. Are you seriously suggesting that by displaying a Dominican flag I'm being disloyal? Even if they are trying to fight for citizenship doesn't mean that they can't still remember the countries they came from.

Most of the people who don't have a close relationship with Latinos or immigrants really wouldn't know what they go through every day. Many illegal immigrants work the jobs that other citizens don't want. Seriously. These people make their living by cleaning toilets. I'm not sure I know many "Americans" willing to take those types of jobs.

I don't think the whole anthem thing was meant to offend anyone. Like theonlysaneone's quote, it's to rally the immigrants, both legal and illegal. For the first time, Latinos are actually uniting for a common cause. And although it may seem like a bad thing to many of you, to me its great to see some solidarity. Like it or not, illegal immigrants do a lot for America. I'd participate in "A Day Without an Immigrant" on May 1st, but I have an AP exam. Still, I definitely support these people and I'll be there in spirit.

I'm confused as to why this is a problem. The meaning of the song doesn't change at all and isn't that what is really important about it?

Well your aunt's situation is a little strange, imo. If she could get citizenship legally then why couldn't her daughter? Besides merely wanting to be in America no one is FORCING them to come here and I'm sure that whether they are legally or otherwise entering the country they all have the same resources for learning English. The fact that it is a translation into Spanish during this time in our history is unfortunate because of so much other controversy involving illegal immigration and dismisses the issue.



Well we aren't exactly having issues with the Dominicans are we? If you were waving the flag of Afghanistan or Cuba then you might be considered to be acting unpatriotic wouldn't you?



It doesn't matter what nationality you are, no one likes those jobs. Illegal immigrants take those jobs because their employers hire them with out reporting them but do not pay them as much. If they just got their citizenship they could have legal, high paying, high profile jobs like anyone else.
I think another major issue with immigrants is that so many have fake social security numbers stolen from other people and a lot of the illegal immigrants are getting privileges that citizens born here are denied. One example would be that in my area illegal citizens are given free college classes while everyone else has to pay, and in grades k-12 most Spanish speaking students are passed along regardless of their grades. Another example would be the abuse of the wellfare system. This ofcourse isn't limmited to Hispanics, as a matter of fact I stopped talking to one of my white friends because she left high school and got knocked up and has been using government support to get by rather than going to work or making her lazy husband get off his rear and go to work, instead she just keeps have kids, not cool.



I also don't think that it was meant to offend anyone but just because of the current social circumstances it's caused some problems. I do think that it is good that Spanish speakers can enjoy our anthem also but I really don't think that "rallying the immigrants" is the point or a good idea. Passing the citizenship test is a rule and encouraging the breaking of rules isn't practical. It's good that people can unite but not for this reason. Maybe they should rally to improve thier own country instead of demanding instant citizenship to this one.


I'm not saying that all immigrants whether they're from Mexico or anywhere else are bad but there are a lot of problems that have arrisen from illegal immigration and this wasn't exactly the best time for the Spanish Star Spangled Banner to make it's debute.

First of all, part of what Snippy said didn't make it through for some reason...



The main problem people have with illegal immigration is that the immigrants seem to make little to no effort to assimilate. (I realize this is a sweeping generalization, and there are many exceptions, but it is true for the most part). Instead of getting out there and learning English and embracing American culture (while adding a healthy amount of their own), they form these little enclaves in large cities and border towns, take whatever jobs they can find, and just live the rest of their lives that way. I respect the fact that they take jobs that others aren't willing to do, but they need to make more of an effort to learn English and embrace our culture.



If you want to be in America, you need to be 100% loyal to America. In other words, you stop being Dominican, Mexican, or even, I don't know, Luxembourgian when you become an American. You can still take pride in your origins, and practice your culture, but you can't show allegiance to any other nation.

On the O'Reilly Factor, they showed the words of the song translated back into Spanish, and they changed a lot of things. The theme of the piece is somewhat removed, and many of the words are much different. All in all, it has a completely different feel. IMHO, it's not a very good translation.

Well my point was that a lot of illegal immigrants do the same thing.

Exactly. When you become a citizen of another country you give up your previous citizenship and along with that should give up your loyalties towards that country, becoming only loyal to the country you just became a citizen of. Flying the flag of a country other than the one you are trying to become a citizen of -- or are a citizen of -- is not loyal.

If you love the country you came from, live there. Don't come to America just so you can take money out of the economy and send it to another country. Come here because you love the nation and its ideals, not just to live better, and when you come here don't spit in the face of every citizen that was born here or came over legally by crossing the border illegally.

A lot of people call those who are against illegal immigration racists, as evidenced by Robin's warning. I don't know one person who is against illegal immigration that is against legal immigration.

Immigration is what this country was built on and I am proud that anyone can come to this country and start a new life in our great nation. However, illegal immigration spits in the faces of my forefathers who came here legally, and it spits in the face of immigrants who come here legally every day.

I hate the argument that says illegal immigrants do the jobs nobody wants, or as I hear more commonly, that white people don't want. I live in Northern Wisconsin where you won't find an illegal immigrant for 100 miles and the jobs illegals claim no citizen wants are still being filled.

I read a poem yesterday that said "Roses are red, violets are blue, without Mexicans what would white people do?" and I had to think to myself "since when is this a white country?" Last time I checked there are races from everywhere in the world, and that is another reason I am proud of this country -- my country.

To sum this all up, being a citizen of a country and wanting to become one is more than just living in it; it's being proud of it and loyal to it and you can't do that while waving another country's flag.