Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:49 pm
Of course Special Ed kids have a different room and easier homework. Special Ed is a whole different program from the mainstream classroom. I think it's completely fair that the special education program goes at a pace that suits the kids in the program.
If the lowest set you have at your school consists of students with learning disabilities, I'm all for it. My brother is autistic and in Special Ed. If the program wasn't tailored to suit his needs, he'd be hopelessly lost in mainstream classrooms and frustrated to no end. He works very hard to keep up in his slower paced classes and I'm glad that they offer such a program for students like him.
However, if the lowest set at your school isn't for kids with learning disabilites, then I don't know what to say. I really do think that the candy bars and special trips are meant for Special Ed kids, because I couldn't imagine any school implementing such a program for normal students.
If the lowest set you have at your school consists of students with learning disabilities, I'm all for it. My brother is autistic and in Special Ed. If the program wasn't tailored to suit his needs, he'd be hopelessly lost in mainstream classrooms and frustrated to no end. He works very hard to keep up in his slower paced classes and I'm glad that they offer such a program for students like him.
However, if the lowest set at your school isn't for kids with learning disabilites, then I don't know what to say. I really do think that the candy bars and special trips are meant for Special Ed kids, because I couldn't imagine any school implementing such a program for normal students.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:25 am
If it is for just special ed kids then obviously that's fine, but if it's for normal students who either aren't very academic or who just can't be bothered then it's quite bizarre. I've been in top sets and bottom sets and I know fine well that if such a scheme had been in place it would have suited the kids who thought "I can't do this so I won't bother trying", would have only distracted those who were trying their best from having that extra time to study, and on top of that would have been a big temptation for those in the higher sets who were just as lazy to suddenly stop doing so well so they could go ice skating.
My littlest bro (8 at the time) was in top sets for everything but the bottom set for reading and the teacher constantly praised him and he got more and more withdrawn until he finally admitted he was really upset at being in the bottom group of something he was trying so hard in and really wanted to be good at. My mum had assumed that being in the lower sets he was getting all the extra help and hadn't realised he had fallen so far behind as he'd been so embarassed he'd hidden it really well. My aunt who is a primary school teacher sat down with him and did some tests and suspects he has a very mild from of dyslexia (the kind you grow out of) and the teacher by constantly telling him he was doing so well had completely failed to pick up on it. Even after that they refused to help him out and actually try and get him to progress and it was only with my mum teaching him herself and getting his confidence back up that he is now at the same level as his friends and enjoying books which is fantastic to see. Rewarding for trying your hardest is great, rewarding for doing well no matter what level you are at is also great, but not at the expense of study time and progress for those who want it.
My littlest bro (8 at the time) was in top sets for everything but the bottom set for reading and the teacher constantly praised him and he got more and more withdrawn until he finally admitted he was really upset at being in the bottom group of something he was trying so hard in and really wanted to be good at. My mum had assumed that being in the lower sets he was getting all the extra help and hadn't realised he had fallen so far behind as he'd been so embarassed he'd hidden it really well. My aunt who is a primary school teacher sat down with him and did some tests and suspects he has a very mild from of dyslexia (the kind you grow out of) and the teacher by constantly telling him he was doing so well had completely failed to pick up on it. Even after that they refused to help him out and actually try and get him to progress and it was only with my mum teaching him herself and getting his confidence back up that he is now at the same level as his friends and enjoying books which is fantastic to see. Rewarding for trying your hardest is great, rewarding for doing well no matter what level you are at is also great, but not at the expense of study time and progress for those who want it.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:56 am
A lot of English Schools don't have 'Special Ed'.
And when they do, it's for severely disadvantaged children, like with cerebal palsy.
Learning difficulties is a very broad spectrum, you see.
Our bottom sets are people with learning difficulties but not so bad they need a special teacher or anything.
Trick- it's not right that people in a bottom set are constantly praised, and I don't believe that this is what is happening here. I believe they are being rewarded for trying their hardest and achieving things that at one time nobody thought they would- even if that's a small thing like answering what seems a simple question correctly.
I don't think ShyShy is in any of these classes, so may be exaggerating.
And when they do, it's for severely disadvantaged children, like with cerebal palsy.
Learning difficulties is a very broad spectrum, you see.
Our bottom sets are people with learning difficulties but not so bad they need a special teacher or anything.
Trick- it's not right that people in a bottom set are constantly praised, and I don't believe that this is what is happening here. I believe they are being rewarded for trying their hardest and achieving things that at one time nobody thought they would- even if that's a small thing like answering what seems a simple question correctly.
I don't think ShyShy is in any of these classes, so may be exaggerating.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:34 pm
Igg wrote:A lot of English Schools don't have 'Special Ed'.
And when they do, it's for severely disadvantaged children, like with cerebal palsy.
Learning difficulties is a very broad spectrum, you see.
Our bottom sets are people with learning difficulties but not so bad they need a special teacher or anything.
Trick- it's not right that people in a bottom set are constantly praised, and I don't believe that this is what is happening here. I believe they are being rewarded for trying their hardest and achieving things that at one time nobody thought they would- even if that's a small thing like answering what seems a simple question correctly.
I don't think ShyShy is in any of these classes, so may be exaggerating.
Oh I see
So many difference between schools in different countries, it's hard to keep up You're exactly right, at my school there was a special ed class but it was for those with very serious problems. Those who had milder problems such as dyslexia or milder versions of other problems were never put in bottom sets, they were usually put in middle to top sets and then received extra lessons and stuff. Our bottom sets were usually full of people who were going to drop out of school mostly. Thanks for making it a lot clearer - US schools are like an alien planet to me, heh x)
Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:39 pm
Oh, I'm in England not in the US! 
I assume ShyShy is too because she talks about Mars Bars. Haha, perhaps I am a tad naive on that front
There are plenty of people with dyslexia who are naturally clever and they are in a decent set. Same with say, someone with asperger's syndrome. My brother is in top sets and he has asperger's. My friend Lori has asperger's and he is pretty clever, but needs special help for some subjects.
The problems arise when someone is dyslexic or something and also lacks natural intelligence; which is where this kind of thing comes in, I think. Not just dyslexia, though, before anyone has a go
I assume ShyShy is too because she talks about Mars Bars. Haha, perhaps I am a tad naive on that front
There are plenty of people with dyslexia who are naturally clever and they are in a decent set. Same with say, someone with asperger's syndrome. My brother is in top sets and he has asperger's. My friend Lori has asperger's and he is pretty clever, but needs special help for some subjects.
The problems arise when someone is dyslexic or something and also lacks natural intelligence; which is where this kind of thing comes in, I think. Not just dyslexia, though, before anyone has a go
Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:48 pm
Oopsie 
Hehe, don't know where I got the impression you were American from *head desk* Ah well perhaps it just varies from school to school, or of course it could be a difference between English and Scottish schools which again are so different from each other x)
I was in a few bottom sets (for English mostly as the year before my shyness had prevented me from doing the dreaded talks which hammered my grade into the ground) but most people there didn't have any legitimate difficulites, they just couldn't be bothered with school. Mind you, we only got split by into different ranked classes when it came to exam years, before that classes were totally random.
But yes, I certainly wouldn't begrudge those who have difficulites or a mix of difficulites and lack of ability from extra perks - that's completely understandable and I believe our special ed classes did get taken on trips and stuff, and those who just got extra lessons got some perks too like extra break times and stuff. I was just thinking of the joy my lazy skiving class mates would have taken from that system x)
Hehe, don't know where I got the impression you were American from *head desk* Ah well perhaps it just varies from school to school, or of course it could be a difference between English and Scottish schools which again are so different from each other x)
I was in a few bottom sets (for English mostly as the year before my shyness had prevented me from doing the dreaded talks which hammered my grade into the ground) but most people there didn't have any legitimate difficulites, they just couldn't be bothered with school. Mind you, we only got split by into different ranked classes when it came to exam years, before that classes were totally random.
But yes, I certainly wouldn't begrudge those who have difficulites or a mix of difficulites and lack of ability from extra perks - that's completely understandable and I believe our special ed classes did get taken on trips and stuff, and those who just got extra lessons got some perks too like extra break times and stuff. I was just thinking of the joy my lazy skiving class mates would have taken from that system x)
Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:58 pm
Oh of course it will be abused by some, but any system would be.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:08 pm
Igg wrote:Oh of course it will be abused by some, but any system would be.
Yup, not exactly what I meant though
The people at my school who genuinely needed help were rewarded with perks - those who were just lazy remained just lazy :/ I don't think there's any way of helping those people which is a great shame as I know many regretted it when they left school. But if you reward them or punish them it seems to make no difference. It's in those kind of cases I think where it's less what the teachers can do and more what the parents should be doing. There was a sweet guy in a few of my classes who was just totally lazy, he had mild dyslexia I think it was and got the extra lessons and perks and so on but after a while he stopped going to those and took the attitude of "oh I can't do it so I can't be bothered" and subsequently fell into some bad ways. His ending was extremely tragic and if anything can be done to help people like him then I am fully behind it regardless of whether some people would take advantage of it.
Teachers have a lot on their shoulders, probably too much but I'll stop there before I continue to go way off topic
Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:30 pm
Sorry, yes.
That's kind of what I meant though. Any system will be abused by some but if it's helping the majority you can't get further than that. There are some who won't be helped, and there's only so much the school can do. What they can do, they should.
Heh.
That's kind of what I meant though. Any system will be abused by some but if it's helping the majority you can't get further than that. There are some who won't be helped, and there's only so much the school can do. What they can do, they should.
Heh.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:42 pm
I actually know quite a few of the lower group people personally. I know one who is actually really trying hard to get into the higher sets. He's quite bad at school and I accept that giving HIM the trips is deserving but most people in there are just lazy. I don't really know but there probably are a few dyslexic (sp?) people and they do as well. Most people in there just like getting the trips. I don't mean to offend anyone in the lower groups who really try so I'm not pinning any of this on you 
. I actually knowa few of my old classmates from the top set who were really jealous of the lower setters and purpously (sp?) let their grades fall to get in.
Cheerio
,
ShyShy
P.S: I am Englsih
. I actually knowa few of my old classmates from the top set who were really jealous of the lower setters and purpously (sp?) let their grades fall to get in.
Cheerio
,
ShyShy
P.S: I am Englsih
Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:13 pm
ShyShy wrote:I actually know quite a few of the lower group people personally. I know one who is actually really trying hard to get into the higher sets. He's quite bad at school and I accept that giving HIM the trips is deserving but most people in there are just lazy.
I doubt that's true. Is it at all possible you're making a generalisation about people you don't know very well?
ShyShy wrote:I actually knowa few of my old classmates from the top set who were really jealous of the lower setters and purpously (sp?) let their grades fall to get in.
Then they're morons.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:23 pm
Then they're morons.
I agree. They are morons because of their low grades, and because they like rewards.
Just like the rest in low set groups.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:32 pm
Well done for trying, but no.
They are morons because they're sacrificing success in school just to get a reward they don't deserve, which is petty and ridiculous. People who need to be in low sets have low grades which are the best they can do, not because they're slacking off to get a reward.
They're morons because they're wasting their talent.
They are morons because they're sacrificing success in school just to get a reward they don't deserve, which is petty and ridiculous. People who need to be in low sets have low grades which are the best they can do, not because they're slacking off to get a reward.
They're morons because they're wasting their talent.
Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:00 pm
Urgh, I hate it when people dumb themselves down. Drives me mad. Those type of people just won't do well as natural intelligence doesn't get you everywhere in life, I should know!
Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:25 am
Woah, this is a really interesting topic. The 'sets' system most of your schools have are kinda like my school, we have a Special Ed unit for people with disabilities, and the rest of us are just mixed around.
Except for in maths, which is graded into sets. I'm in one of the bottom classes, and I know people who are just too lazy/talkative to do their best, and I know others (like me) who just honestly need help with maths. Our teacher's really great, he helps us alot and is really nice and disiplines those people who aren't trying very hard or slacking off (which happens quite often), but not in a very harsh way of course.
Then again, I don't know much about other schools around here, cause I go to a Selective High School. So basically, all the marks I achieve here would probably be straight A's if I went to a normal school...
Oh, and I live in Australia, in case you didn't know.
Except for in maths, which is graded into sets. I'm in one of the bottom classes, and I know people who are just too lazy/talkative to do their best, and I know others (like me) who just honestly need help with maths. Our teacher's really great, he helps us alot and is really nice and disiplines those people who aren't trying very hard or slacking off (which happens quite often), but not in a very harsh way of course.
Then again, I don't know much about other schools around here, cause I go to a Selective High School. So basically, all the marks I achieve here would probably be straight A's if I went to a normal school...
Oh, and I live in Australia, in case you didn't know.