Chicken and egg debate unscrambled

Asthaloth · **Posts:** 4284 **Joined:** Mon May 31, 2004 4:48 am

Let's call it an egg.
There.
Done

Or a plexur-Chicken egg if that's any better.
edit:
Or a Protoean-chicken egg.
Or the Post-plexur egg.

Or heck, the Plexkin egg.

Anoohilator · **Posted:** Mon May 29, 2006 11:09 pm

Setekh wrote:

Anoohilator wrote:

Imagine this - out of the whole human race there's only two people left - a male albino and female albino - if everything goes right they reproduce and start off an albino population. 1000 years later they ask - what came first the albino or the albino embryo.

The first domestic chicken was probably a mutant of some other bird but yeah! Mutants!

Don't work quite like that, but you have the right idea.

(and the human race could not continue with just two surivors, something like 600 is needed, just to nitpick

Why 600 (Feels stupid)

and yeah it was just a stupid example (Albino race ftw)

Asthaloth · **Posts:** 4284 **Joined:** Mon May 31, 2004 4:48 am

Well a rough estimate of 600 is needed to restore the human race to prevent genetic instability caused by In-breeding.
I seem to recall that Impotence and sterilisation are consequences of inbreeding, which, ofcourse, put a bit of a dampener on rebuilding the species.

sirclucky · **Posted:** Tue May 30, 2006 1:12 am

If your pesudo chicken lays an egg which when hatched will turn into a chicken; and I take that egg and place it with 11 chicken eggs and ask you to find the pesudo chicken egg, then you will fail. So by that logic, you could say the egg came first(putting the origins debate aside, of course).

But in the same way, Llamas have llamas as children. Ducks have ducks as children. Chickens have chickens as children. Thus if its a chicken, it will lay a chicken egg. If its pesudo chicken, it will lay a pesudo chicken egg. Thus the chicken came first.

SpiraLethe · **Posted:** Tue May 30, 2006 2:36 am

Because we can always draw a definitive line between one species and another? Biology is full of categories that we make up to make sense of nature. It doesn't mean nature always abide by our categories. It's just that our categories are the best we've got. I'm weary about such ideas as that one organisms that is the supposed start of a whole new species. I severely doubt it's that clean cut.

And of course eggs came before chicken. The amniotic egg evolved long berfore birds.

Asthaloth · **Posts:** 4284 **Joined:** Mon May 31, 2004 4:48 am

sirclucky wrote:

If your pesudo chicken lays an egg which when hatched will turn into a chicken; and I take that egg and place it with 11 chicken eggs and ask you to find the pesudo chicken egg, then you will fail. So by that logic, you could say the egg came first(putting the origins debate aside, of course).

But in the same way, Llamas have llamas as children. Ducks have ducks as children. Chickens have chickens as children. Thus if its a chicken, it will lay a chicken egg. If its pesudo chicken, it will lay a pesudo chicken egg. Thus the chicken came first.

Faulty Logic'D
it matters not that Llamas have ickle Llamas, if said Ickle Llama is noticeably differant then its not a Llama.
Case and point: What does a Tiger give birth too?
Tiger right.
Not if it bred with a Lion, in which case its a Liger.

And, I could get another pre-Chicken to locate said egg, and it would, being far more qualified to locate its egg than I.

Igg · **Posts:** 6288 **Joined:** Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:47 pm

SpiraLethe wrote:

And of course eggs came before chicken. The amniotic egg evolved long berfore birds.

Oh Spira, I love you.

Eggs in general certainly came before chickens, though I know you know that's not what the debate's about

sirclucky · **Posted:** Tue May 30, 2006 12:16 pm

SpiraLethe wrote:

And of course eggs came before chicken. The amniotic egg evolved long berfore birds.

I thought we agreed NOT to bring evolution into this debate. <_<

Quote:

Faulty Logic'D
it matters not that Llamas have ickle Llamas, if said Ickle Llama is noticeably differant then its not a Llama.
Case and point: What does a Tiger give birth too?
Tiger right.
Not if it bred with a Lion, in which case its a Liger.

But those Tigers still have "eggs" which are still Tiger eggs until the hatch into the Liger.

o_0 · **Posted:** Tue May 30, 2006 12:56 pm

o_o I hope you're not talking about tiger eggs-with-shells. o_o That'd hurt.

Asparagus Queen · **Posts:** 715 **Joined:** Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:01 am

If you breed a male donkey to a female horse, the female horse has a baby mule. If you knew the baby was going to be a mule, you'd call it a mule baby all along. If you didn't know, you'd call it a baby horse, then a baby mule pops out and you'd start refering to it as a baby mule. You wouldn't say, "oh, it was a baby horse for 11 or so months, then when it was born it became a baby mule." o.O I would think the same logic applies to the eggs.

If you have a turkey that layed an egg, then you're going to call it a turkey egg. But when the egg hatches and it's a chicken, are you going to call it a turkey egg that just turned into a chicken one day? Or was it a chicken the whole time?

If a female human is pregnant with a baby boy, but he's turned sideways and the doctor says it's a girl, so the mom thinks she's having a girl, then a boy pops out in 9 months, was the mom carrying a girl for 9 months that turned into a boy one day?

Rachel · **Posted:** Tue May 30, 2006 1:17 pm

sirclucky wrote:

Quote:

Faulty Logic'D
it matters not that Llamas have ickle Llamas, if said Ickle Llama is noticeably differant then its not a Llama.
Case and point: What does a Tiger give birth too?
Tiger right.
Not if it bred with a Lion, in which case its a Liger.

But those Tigers still have "eggs" which are still Tiger eggs until the hatch into the Liger.

thats not right. because they're mammals its slightly different. its a liger embryo once the tiger egg has been fertilised. while its still an egg it cant grow into a new organism.

Asparagus Queen · **Posts:** 715 **Joined:** Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:01 am

Yeah. So the turkey has a turkey egg, then it gets fertilized by a weird male turkey, and that's when it becomes a mutant turkey egg, or a chicken egg.

Rachel · **Posted:** Tue May 30, 2006 1:27 pm

well you still have the "chicken" egg, as birds grow inside eggs untli the egg hatches - very different from mammals, they cant be compared

Asparagus Queen · **Posts:** 715 **Joined:** Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:01 am

Right, but no animal grows in an egg unless it's fertilized. After it's fertilized is when it starts to grow inside the egg. I think that's why we were using animals that were different than a chicken - to show the difference in animal.

Igg · **Posts:** 6288 **Joined:** Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:47 pm

sirclucky wrote:

SpiraLethe wrote:

And of course eggs came before chicken. The amniotic egg evolved long berfore birds.

I thought we agreed NOT to bring evolution into this debate. <_<

OH GOOD GOD.*

Who agreed?!

If you really want, I'll reword it for you:

"the amniotic egg existed long before birds". Yeesh.

* I hope we didn't agree not to bring God into this debate either. If we did, my apologies.

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