The Decline of Children's Television
Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:02 pm
WARNING! DISJOINTED ANGRY MES RANT AHEAD!
Billy & Mandy has a good concept, but a rather horrible execution. They try to pass it off as a "morbid" cartoon, but they're too scared to go all the way with it like Jhonen did with 'Zim. The only "morbid" bit about it is Mandy and -- hah! -- she's a total ripoff of Gaz from Invader Zim! Seriously!
The characters are rarely funny, just annoying for the most part, especially Billy and Erwin, with Grim himself coming in a close third -- The Grim Reaper should be able to fix any bad show, but somehow he fails! It's amazing! That's the problem with the newer shows on these Kid networks -- back in the day, they didn't /care/ if crazy overprotective parents went insane because of something in a cartoon that probably went right over the target audience's heads, they were just out to make a good 'toon! If you want to see what a good "morbid" toon should look like, then check Courage the Cowardly Dog or, even better, Invader Zim (whoever decided to give Jhonen Vasquez free reign with a children's animated show is a genius) -- there was some pretty freakin' messed-up stuff in those shows! Morbid doesn't just need "death and darkness", it needs /atmosphere/, a sense of very real impending danger.
Even the relatively good new shows such as Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, made by the creators of Dexter's lab and Powerpuff Girls (two of my favorite cartoons when I was a little Mesling, fresh from the eggsack and covered in goo): the concept's good, the characters are good, but most of the episodes are devoid of any of the, well, /zing/ that was an absolute given in the older cartoons! None of the randomness, the freakin' /innuendo/! Don't believe me? Just look at any of the older shows like Cow & Chicken or Rocko's Modern Life -- they had childish bathroom humor, but those bits were always backed up by a healthy dose of actual /jokes/ that made you laugh. Not to mention Rocko was chock-full of blatant adult humor (I didn't even realize how dirty that show was 'til I checked out IMDb XD). Now we get shows like My Gym Partner's a Monkey that keep the bathroom humor but forsake, you know, /humor/.
Hah, there were /two/ cartoon characters back in da' day that were so blatantly CROSSDRESSING SATANS (Him from PPG and The Red Guy from C&C -- great characters there). That's a double whammy to the religious folk and they got away with it! For /years/! Then Zim comes up with relatively innocent organ harvesting and the show gets cancelled after like half a year!
-Throws flowers on the mutilated graves of her favorite cartoon characters and sniffles-
RANT WARNING OVER! BOOP, BOOP, BOOP!
Billy & Mandy has a good concept, but a rather horrible execution. They try to pass it off as a "morbid" cartoon, but they're too scared to go all the way with it like Jhonen did with 'Zim. The only "morbid" bit about it is Mandy and -- hah! -- she's a total ripoff of Gaz from Invader Zim! Seriously!
The characters are rarely funny, just annoying for the most part, especially Billy and Erwin, with Grim himself coming in a close third -- The Grim Reaper should be able to fix any bad show, but somehow he fails! It's amazing! That's the problem with the newer shows on these Kid networks -- back in the day, they didn't /care/ if crazy overprotective parents went insane because of something in a cartoon that probably went right over the target audience's heads, they were just out to make a good 'toon! If you want to see what a good "morbid" toon should look like, then check Courage the Cowardly Dog or, even better, Invader Zim (whoever decided to give Jhonen Vasquez free reign with a children's animated show is a genius) -- there was some pretty freakin' messed-up stuff in those shows! Morbid doesn't just need "death and darkness", it needs /atmosphere/, a sense of very real impending danger.
Even the relatively good new shows such as Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, made by the creators of Dexter's lab and Powerpuff Girls (two of my favorite cartoons when I was a little Mesling, fresh from the eggsack and covered in goo): the concept's good, the characters are good, but most of the episodes are devoid of any of the, well, /zing/ that was an absolute given in the older cartoons! None of the randomness, the freakin' /innuendo/! Don't believe me? Just look at any of the older shows like Cow & Chicken or Rocko's Modern Life -- they had childish bathroom humor, but those bits were always backed up by a healthy dose of actual /jokes/ that made you laugh. Not to mention Rocko was chock-full of blatant adult humor (I didn't even realize how dirty that show was 'til I checked out IMDb XD). Now we get shows like My Gym Partner's a Monkey that keep the bathroom humor but forsake, you know, /humor/.
Hah, there were /two/ cartoon characters back in da' day that were so blatantly CROSSDRESSING SATANS (Him from PPG and The Red Guy from C&C -- great characters there). That's a double whammy to the religious folk and they got away with it! For /years/! Then Zim comes up with relatively innocent organ harvesting and the show gets cancelled after like half a year!
-Throws flowers on the mutilated graves of her favorite cartoon characters and sniffles-
RANT WARNING OVER! BOOP, BOOP, BOOP!
Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:05 am
Rockos modern life and Cow and chicken make me die out of agony watching them 
Now, I think childrens cartoons dropped off the deep end since the mid 90's.
Transformers was the late 80's, the Simpsons started then, Care Bears, Eek! the Cat, Inspector gadget, Tintin and Barbar from France, Reboot, Carmen Sandiego, Pinky and the Brain mid 90's, those were the good old days for me.
Hence why I shun Television and turned to anime sometime around then
I mean the worst show on the entire planet ever is Ed, Edd, and Eddy
Now, I think childrens cartoons dropped off the deep end since the mid 90's.
Transformers was the late 80's, the Simpsons started then, Care Bears, Eek! the Cat, Inspector gadget, Tintin and Barbar from France, Reboot, Carmen Sandiego, Pinky and the Brain mid 90's, those were the good old days for me.
Hence why I shun Television and turned to anime sometime around then
I mean the worst show on the entire planet ever is Ed, Edd, and Eddy
Last edited by Christopher on Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:54 am
Billy & Mandy has a good concept, but a rather horrible execution. They try to pass it off as a "morbid" cartoon, but they're too scared to go all the way with it like Jhonen did with 'Zim. The only "morbid" bit about it is Mandy and -- hah! -- she's a total ripoff of Gaz from Invader Zim! Seriously!
The characters are rarely funny, just annoying for the most part, especially Billy and Erwin, with Grim himself coming in a close third -- The Grim Reaper should be able to fix any bad show, but somehow he fails! It's amazing! That's the problem with the newer shows on these Kid networks -- back in the day, they didn't /care/ if crazy overprotective parents went insane because of something in a cartoon that probably went right over the target audience's heads, they were just out to make a good 'toon! If you want to see what a good "morbid" toon should look like, then check Courage the Cowardly Dog or, even better, Invader Zim (whoever decided to give Jhonen Vasquez free reign with a children's animated show is a genius) -- there was some pretty freakin' messed-up stuff in those shows! Morbid doesn't just need "death and darkness", it needs /atmosphere/, a sense of very real impending danger.
How old are you, by the way? Billy and Mandy seems to be absolutely hilarious to the older community (18-19, around there), in fact, I'll even go far as to say it's on par with Invader Zim (IZ is great, but it was severely overrated and became a huge fad during it's reign on television). Anyway, who said it was supposed to be morbid? o_0 If it was "morbid" (which I don't really think Invader Zim was either, but then again, I've seen morbid things before). If they wanted to make it morbid, people would be disemboweled and it would be a bloody mess.
(and Rocko was great too. =O)
Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:19 am
Christopher wrote:Pinky and the Brain mid 90's, those were the good old days for me.
NARF. :3
Kugey - I'm guessing possibly a little older or younger than me (I'm in my early teens) because I remember all those shows.
I really don't like the thoughts of morbid cartoons. (although I can understand for an older audience) I remember specifically once I watched Invader Zim and I was in ph33r because like the skin over his eyes like burnt or something XD Thats not horribly morbid though, just slightly disturbing to a sensitive, naive little child.. XD Once when my nephew was here, he was watching The Grim Adventures of Bill(y?) and Mandy, and honestly, it was kind of disturbing to me, and I was like 13 at the time XD
I can tell you one thing though, Angry Beavers was my favorite cartoon when I was little. Me and my dad would watch it all the time. I loved it. I still like to make Dag's little noises XD It was so stupid it was entertaining, I guess.
Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:33 am
As an avid cartoon viewer for the past 22.7 years, I have to agree with this topic, but not the reasoning. Christopher's list is of the last great 'kids' shows from non-Japanese sources (if you leave Batman: The Animated Series (pre-WB days), Animaniacs and Futurama off the list). The sad part is that ever since Animaniacs, all of the shows have emulated that model, quite poorly I might add. Although I may dislike the 'kids' programing on the air today, that doesn't mean the kids don't. The older we get the more mature our tastes become. Like Christopher said, his tastes evolved into liking anime. The rest of us that want cartoons, but don't like what the American and other countries are turning out, should follow that path. Just my two cents so you don't have to listen to me.
Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:01 pm
Kugetsu wrote:Billy & Mandy has a good concept, but a rather horrible execution. They try to pass it off as a "morbid" cartoon, but they're too scared to go all the way with it like Jhonen did with 'Zim. The only "morbid" bit about it is Mandy and -- hah! -- she's a total ripoff of Gaz from Invader Zim! Seriously!
The characters are rarely funny, just annoying for the most part, especially Billy and Erwin, with Grim himself coming in a close third -- The Grim Reaper should be able to fix any bad show, but somehow he fails! It's amazing! That's the problem with the newer shows on these Kid networks -- back in the day, they didn't /care/ if crazy overprotective parents went insane because of something in a cartoon that probably went right over the target audience's heads, they were just out to make a good 'toon! If you want to see what a good "morbid" toon should look like, then check Courage the Cowardly Dog or, even better, Invader Zim (whoever decided to give Jhonen Vasquez free reign with a children's animated show is a genius) -- there was some pretty freakin' messed-up stuff in those shows! Morbid doesn't just need "death and darkness", it needs /atmosphere/, a sense of very real impending danger.
How old are you, by the way? Billy and Mandy seems to be absolutely hilarious to the older community (18-19, around there), in fact, I'll even go far as to say it's on par with Invader Zim (IZ is great, but it was severely overrated and became a huge fad during it's reign on television). Anyway, who said it was supposed to be morbid? o_0 If it was "morbid" (which I don't really think Invader Zim was either, but then again, I've seen morbid things before). If they wanted to make it morbid, people would be disemboweled and it would be a bloody mess.
(and Rocko was great too. =O)
14, and that show is duuumb
. And if the Grim Reaper is in the equasion, you can pretty much rest assured it's supposed to be morbid -- morbid, in this context, doesn't mean "people would be disemboweled and it would be a bloody mess", it means creepy, scary and otherwise disturbing to little kidlets.And just for the record, I hate anime.
Last edited by Moonshadow on Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:17 pm
I think the actual issue is that you can't go home again. Each of us hold cherished memories of the cartoons we watched when we were a child, and one we grow up, nothing will ever match them.
Personally, I grew up watching Fraggle Rock, Care Bears, Rainbow Bright, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Transformers, Animaniacs, Duck Tales, Rescue Rangers, Doug, etc, basically all the cheery 80s & 90s stuff. (I was born in 1981).
While there are cartoons I enjoy now, nothing will ever match those in my estimation. However, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there born before me who would say Duck Tales was crap (and probably after me, as well). All in all, I believe it's just a generational thing, and there's not much anyone can do about it. Same thing with music-- there will most likely come a point when all of our kids are laughing at us for listening to Korn & Gwen Stefani (or whoever floats your boat at the moment).
Personally, I grew up watching Fraggle Rock, Care Bears, Rainbow Bright, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Transformers, Animaniacs, Duck Tales, Rescue Rangers, Doug, etc, basically all the cheery 80s & 90s stuff. (I was born in 1981).
While there are cartoons I enjoy now, nothing will ever match those in my estimation. However, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there born before me who would say Duck Tales was crap (and probably after me, as well). All in all, I believe it's just a generational thing, and there's not much anyone can do about it. Same thing with music-- there will most likely come a point when all of our kids are laughing at us for listening to Korn & Gwen Stefani (or whoever floats your boat at the moment).
Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:36 pm
Oh man... Old cartoons. How I miss them:
David the Gnome, Noozles, Inspector Gadget, Tintin, Grimm's Fairytale Classics, Doug, etc.
Those were the days.
David the Gnome, Noozles, Inspector Gadget, Tintin, Grimm's Fairytale Classics, Doug, etc.
Those were the days.
Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:53 pm
SpiraLethe wrote:Oh man... Old cartoons. How I miss them:
David the Gnome, Noozles, Inspector Gadget, Tintin, Grimm's Fairytale Classics, Doug, etc.
Those were the days.
Oh Noozles!! I forgot about that one. Wasn't there another Koala one, the Little Koala or something?
Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:08 pm
thelilbear wrote:SpiraLethe wrote:Oh man... Old cartoons. How I miss them:
David the Gnome, Noozles, Inspector Gadget, Tintin, Grimm's Fairytale Classics, Doug, etc.
Those were the days.
Oh Noozles!! I forgot about that one. Wasn't there another Koala one, the Little Koala or something?
And the only Koala show I can think of is Blinky Bill.
Inspector Gadget (the original) and Care Bears need to go on my list...
I would put the Muppet show and Fraggle Rock on there but they are not cartoons.
Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:55 pm
Moonshadow wrote:Kugetsu wrote:Billy & Mandy has a good concept, but a rather horrible execution. They try to pass it off as a "morbid" cartoon, but they're too scared to go all the way with it like Jhonen did with 'Zim. The only "morbid" bit about it is Mandy and -- hah! -- she's a total ripoff of Gaz from Invader Zim! Seriously!
The characters are rarely funny, just annoying for the most part, especially Billy and Erwin, with Grim himself coming in a close third -- The Grim Reaper should be able to fix any bad show, but somehow he fails! It's amazing! That's the problem with the newer shows on these Kid networks -- back in the day, they didn't /care/ if crazy overprotective parents went insane because of something in a cartoon that probably went right over the target audience's heads, they were just out to make a good 'toon! If you want to see what a good "morbid" toon should look like, then check Courage the Cowardly Dog or, even better, Invader Zim (whoever decided to give Jhonen Vasquez free reign with a children's animated show is a genius) -- there was some pretty freakin' messed-up stuff in those shows! Morbid doesn't just need "death and darkness", it needs /atmosphere/, a sense of very real impending danger.
How old are you, by the way? Billy and Mandy seems to be absolutely hilarious to the older community (18-19, around there), in fact, I'll even go far as to say it's on par with Invader Zim (IZ is great, but it was severely overrated and became a huge fad during it's reign on television). Anyway, who said it was supposed to be morbid? o_0 If it was "morbid" (which I don't really think Invader Zim was either, but then again, I've seen morbid things before). If they wanted to make it morbid, people would be disemboweled and it would be a bloody mess.
(and Rocko was great too. =O)
14, and that show is duuumb. And if the Grim Reaper is in the equasion, you can pretty much rest assured it's supposed to be morbid -- morbid, in this context, doesn't mean "people would be disemboweled and it would be a bloody mess", it means creepy, scary and otherwise disturbing to little kidlets.
And just for the record, I hate anime.
Grim Adventures doesn't try to be morbid. Heck, you have a Grim Reaper with a Jamacian Accent that keeps getting humiliated. Now, if he actually acted like most portrayals of the Grim Reaper, then yes it would be morbid, but since he doesn't, it's not and doesn't try to be.
Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:01 pm
Moonshadow wrote:Kugetsu wrote:Billy & Mandy has a good concept, but a rather horrible execution. They try to pass it off as a "morbid" cartoon, but they're too scared to go all the way with it like Jhonen did with 'Zim. The only "morbid" bit about it is Mandy and -- hah! -- she's a total ripoff of Gaz from Invader Zim! Seriously!
The characters are rarely funny, just annoying for the most part, especially Billy and Erwin, with Grim himself coming in a close third -- The Grim Reaper should be able to fix any bad show, but somehow he fails! It's amazing! That's the problem with the newer shows on these Kid networks -- back in the day, they didn't /care/ if crazy overprotective parents went insane because of something in a cartoon that probably went right over the target audience's heads, they were just out to make a good 'toon! If you want to see what a good "morbid" toon should look like, then check Courage the Cowardly Dog or, even better, Invader Zim (whoever decided to give Jhonen Vasquez free reign with a children's animated show is a genius) -- there was some pretty freakin' messed-up stuff in those shows! Morbid doesn't just need "death and darkness", it needs /atmosphere/, a sense of very real impending danger.
How old are you, by the way? Billy and Mandy seems to be absolutely hilarious to the older community (18-19, around there), in fact, I'll even go far as to say it's on par with Invader Zim (IZ is great, but it was severely overrated and became a huge fad during it's reign on television). Anyway, who said it was supposed to be morbid? o_0 If it was "morbid" (which I don't really think Invader Zim was either, but then again, I've seen morbid things before). If they wanted to make it morbid, people would be disemboweled and it would be a bloody mess.
(and Rocko was great too. =O)
14, and that show is duuumb. And if the Grim Reaper is in the equasion, you can pretty much rest assured it's supposed to be morbid -- morbid, in this context, doesn't mean "people would be disemboweled and it would be a bloody mess", it means creepy, scary and otherwise disturbing to little kidlets.
And just for the record, I hate anime.
lol, a Grim Reaper doesn't equal morbid. A Grim Reaper slaved to take care of a babbling idiot and an evil brat? That's hardly "morbid" or even scary to small children. Not to mention that every time he "tries" to be scary, he ends up making a fool of himself. Seems like the humour is over your head...
In my opinion, it just sounds like deprivation of the oldies is making you extremely biased against newer things to come, which happens to most people. As was already mentioned, you can't go back in time. Complaining about what is around now isn't really going to change anything. The only way to remedy this is to actually watch the classics and not watch the newer cartoons.
(plus the fact that you hate "anime" pretty much proves that. Anime is not a "thing", it's countless amounts of different japanese "cartoons". Grouping them together and pretty much assuming that they're all alike is foolish)
Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:40 pm
Amazing how other people can insult /my/ tastes all they want and the second I say a word against their precious Anime I'm an idiot. I am so EFFING tired of being condescended like I don't know anything.
I'm not saying all the animes in all of Japan are alike and I hate them, I'm saying that I do not like the ones I can freely see on Toonami or Adult Swim when I turn the clicky-click to Cartoon Network.
No, I suck because I haven't seen the precious SUBBED versions, so I haven't seen real anime! You really expect me to pay 50 effing dollars to buy the OHMIGOSHSUBBED versions so that I can get the "full effect" of something I DON'T LIKE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!
No, wait, you know what, you're right. Ignore my opinions. It's really a wonder I can wipe myself after going to the bathroom. I keep jabbing myself in the eye with my fork when I try and eat
so sorry for insulting your lifejuice.
I'm not saying all the animes in all of Japan are alike and I hate them, I'm saying that I do not like the ones I can freely see on Toonami or Adult Swim when I turn the clicky-click to Cartoon Network.
No, I suck because I haven't seen the precious SUBBED versions, so I haven't seen real anime! You really expect me to pay 50 effing dollars to buy the OHMIGOSHSUBBED versions so that I can get the "full effect" of something I DON'T LIKE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!
No, wait, you know what, you're right. Ignore my opinions. It's really a wonder I can wipe myself after going to the bathroom. I keep jabbing myself in the eye with my fork when I try and eat
so sorry for insulting your lifejuice.
Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:53 am
I'm with you on that one, Moonshadow. Er, well, not the anime bit. That is, kind of the anime bit. I fail to see the utter fascination wiht stuff like Inuyasha and Naruto and whatever the popular nonsense is these days, but the classic stuff like Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke....great stuff.
Anyway, I ramble.
Having access to all of 3 television channels, I didn't watch many cartoons growing up. I only got so see them when i visited my Grandma, since she had cable :p but I remember the classics like CatDog (<3), Tom and Jerry, Courage the Cowardly Dog, and....plenty of others. I haven't seen much of the newer stuff, but every time I HAVE had the opportunity to watch, I've changed the channel out of sheer disgust or disinterest. Maybe it's just me lashing out ant the new stuff out of deprivation of the oldies, but I think the more likely cause is just what Moonshadow said: a decline in the quality of the shows in question.
Anyway, I ramble.
Having access to all of 3 television channels, I didn't watch many cartoons growing up. I only got so see them when i visited my Grandma, since she had cable :p but I remember the classics like CatDog (<3), Tom and Jerry, Courage the Cowardly Dog, and....plenty of others. I haven't seen much of the newer stuff, but every time I HAVE had the opportunity to watch, I've changed the channel out of sheer disgust or disinterest. Maybe it's just me lashing out ant the new stuff out of deprivation of the oldies, but I think the more likely cause is just what Moonshadow said: a decline in the quality of the shows in question.
Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:24 am
.:Requiem:. wrote:I'm with you on that one, Moonshadow. Er, well, not the anime bit. That is, kind of the anime bit. I fail to see the utter fascination wiht stuff like Inuyasha and Naruto and whatever the popular nonsense is these days, but the classic stuff like Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke....great stuff.
Anyway, I ramble.
Having access to all of 3 television channels, I didn't watch many cartoons growing up. I only got so see them when i visited my Grandma, since she had cable :p but I remember the classics like CatDog (<3), Tom and Jerry, Courage the Cowardly Dog, and....plenty of others. I haven't seen much of the newer stuff, but every time I HAVE had the opportunity to watch, I've changed the channel out of sheer disgust or disinterest. Maybe it's just me lashing out ant the new stuff out of deprivation of the oldies, but I think the more likely cause is just what Moonshadow said: a decline in the quality of the shows in question.
I think it's more that our mentality changes as we grow up, and the same things that amazed us when we were six or seven is not going to amaze us now. When we look at the current cartoons now, we are (hopefully) much more mature and we know more about how the world works, so simple shows may seem trite to us now, but we may have loved them if they were on when we were little.
For example, I know it's not a cartoon, but I loved Saved by the Bell when it was on. I used to watch it every day after school. Now it's on in the mornings when I get ready for work, so I leave it on sometimes for background noise. Now, I can't believe how trite and contrived the plots and characters were, and I am rather embarrassed that I liked it so much. Full House is the same way, not to mention most sitcoms that were on at that time.
I can't comment on the anime, because it has never really interested me, so I don't know what's good and what not. And I'm not trying to say anyone's views are invalid about any of this, I'm just expressing mine. ::shrug:: Feel free to disagree!