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 Post subject: The Appeal Behind Anime...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:44 pm 
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Alright, guys, so I come bearing a question. I'm not a fan of anime -- in fact, I think I may very well be a disliker (is that a word? :P ) of it. I was a fan of Pokemon and Digimon when I was, like, 7, but other than those 2 staples for children, I was always just uncaring about anime as a whole.

So instead of me going around saying "Oh, I hate it" whenever someone asks me if I'm a fan of anime, I'd like to know... what's the appeal behind it? Why does anime have so many dang fans, especially in America? What's so spectacular about it that it's got a bigger fanbase, no doubt, than any other genre of cartooning? (That last one sounds cynical, but it's not!)

I'd just really like to know what you guys think, and why you're all such great fans of it. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:24 pm 
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There are lot of reasons.

#No 1. Anime isn't aimed at children in general. Almost every show that leaps the pacific to america seems to be cut, dumbed down, and then redistributed to an age group 3-4 years younger. As of such in Japan it is made with more depth and plot and can use more violence (until it gets Americanised (I would use a different word starting with r)). Japanese people have different standards than Americans and so Americans often don't realise that their 7 year old might not be able to cope with Gundam Wing. Or Ninja scroll =/

The level of violence, sex, cuteness, fluffy creatures, and stories are all slightly higher than in american stuff for whatever you are watching, so this sort of appeals to the fans.

#No 2. Anime has art, style, computer graphics, etc, it is like moving masterwork when compared to many american cartoons, though of course there are more simple ones. Have you ever been to an animation studio in Japan? I have, they have men spending hours upon hours painting backdrops for the characters with a fine tip brush. They just spend so much more time on their work and as of such produce far higher quality work. Something like Haibane Renmei is a pleasure to look at compared to some (in my opinion) refuse like Ed, Edd, and Eddy. This is probably due to the corporate sponsership they get giving them much more money to work with.

#No 3. Anime convers every genre for all people, drama, sci-fi, fantasy, musical, whatever. Essentially I can watch anything. Anything ;P. Because of this I can enjoy giant robots, philisophy, and drama...all in one!

#No 4. The merchandise (from Japan, wouldn't buy american knock offs) is actually good. The 'dolls' I pick up are just far better than what you would get from an american show (and I wouldn't even want one). I can get wallscrolls (which are like tapestry prints that look really nice), I can even get the characters clothing if I though it looked good.

This is just my opinion of course.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:55 pm 
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Christopher covered a good deal of it, but I think I'll go with a bit of a personal perspective for myself.

First off, let me say I've never watched Pokemon, Digimon, Dragonball Z or the majority of the anime thats been in the US for a long time and hasn't really gone off the air since it's arrival. Even in Japan, I think a lot of those are seen as commercialized 'fluff', made simply to sell the merchandise. But I could be wrong on this, don't hold me to it. So with that being said, I would suggest not deciding whether or not you dislike anime as a whole after only watching those shows. I wouldn't like anime either if that's all I had to go on. ^_^; (And I'm not trying to imply that you're basing everything on those two shows, but you didn't mention any others that you've seen, so I felt the need to go ahead and say it just in case.)

Anyway...the appeal of anime for me is how real it feels. Sure, the girls may have blue hair, sure the animation has a slower frame rate than in the US, but I can really connect to the characters and storylines like I never could with American cartoons. This in part is due to the linear storylines most anime have. All the episodes are tied together and build on something more. It's not like watching Animaniacs or Family Guy where the previous episodes usually have nothing to do with the current episodes. Let's face it, Bart Simpson has been 10 years old for nearly 20 years now. Even in comedic "plotless" anime (something that would be akin to Tiny Toon Adventures or Animaniacs), there is usually linear forward movement. Azumanga Daioh episodes are basically just 4 or 5 little subplots that usually have nothing to do with one another. But, it still progresses through time. At the beginning of the series, the girls are 1st year high school students that don't know each other, and the series ends when they graduate from high school and have to cope with losing the friendships they've nurtured over the years. No plot, but still linear movement that allows you really connect with the show.

Character development is also very important in anime. For me, characters are the most important thing. I can watch a bad plot *cough*Peach Girl*cough* as long as there are characters to connect with. While Lisa Simpson might learn to be tolerant of non-vegetarians by the end of an episode, by the next her intolerance is right back where it was before. But in many anime, the characters mature slowly over time, and while there are points of regression, they usually keep moving forward. Tsukino Usagi from Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon is probably the best example of this for me. She started out unable to walk a straight line without tripping over her own feet and bursting into tears, but by the last season of the show, she's gained maturity (and aged) to a point that she actually tries to deal with her gracelessness and emotions by herself to become a stronger person and to not always be a burden on her friends.

Not only do the characters grow, but there seems to be a slightly larger range of character bases. The Simpsons and Family Guy (as well as Malcolm in the Middle and other non-animated shows) both have a rather dumb father, a nagging wife, a rebellious child/character, an extremely intelligent child, etc. Whereas there are typeset characters in anime as well, there just seems to be a slightly broader range of the characters. That's not to say that Hideki from Chobits and Keitaro from Love Hina aren't the same sort of character, but you get a very different feeling from of them, much moreso than you do from Homer and Peter. Each base character is given enough depth not to seem like the same person. Sakaki-san from Azumanga Daioh and Kino Makoto from Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon are both tall, strong, athletic, and generally seen as both cool and frightening to the people around them. And yet, thats where the similarities end really. The characters, though from the same base, are very different in the way they 'interact' with the rest of the 'world'. And it's truly refreshing to have such differences.

Honestly, I could go on and on about characters...I really could. Characters are what make an anime for me. But there is much more to an anime. In particular, the stories. There is such a wide variety of stories and genres available. There is Sailor Moon, a children's show about teen girls saving the world. Then you can come across Love Hina which shows the day-to-day interactions of a group of people all living in the same apartment house. And then you run across a show like Haibane Renmei which delves into ideals of what happens after death. Finally, you might come across an intriguing shoot-em-up style show like Noir, which follows two female assassins as they try to solve the mysteries of their past. And then there is everything in between: comedies, sports shows, dramas, horror shows, suspense series, psychological thrillers, romantic comedies, mecha action shows, series that discuss the dilemmas of our world either blatantly or subtly, etc etc.

Another great thing about anime is often there is a deeper meaning that you can search for. Many anime actually make you think to truly understand it. You can enjoy Revolutionary Girl Utena without thinking, but if you want to truly love it, it's best to take a look at the symbolism used throughout the show and realize there are numerous hidden meanings throughout.

Anyway, with all that being said, anime isn't really for everyone. There are some people who simply cannot get past the thought that animation is for children, or the stereotype that all anime is like Pokemon. Plus, there are people who simply do not enjoy the animation style used in anime. I personally think it's beautiful, but some people find it less appealing than well-done American shows (back when they didn't constantly try to copy the anime style).

I should note that I do in fact enjoy many American animated television programs. I've been watching the Simpsons since its inception on the Tracy Ullman show, I watch South Park from time to time and Family Guy as well. Plus, I have always adored Tiny Toon Adventures, Animaniacs, and the Power Puff Girls. So in my earlier examples, I wasn't trying to bash American cartoons, but instead point out the differences. I love my ever 8-years-old Lisa Simpson. I enjoy Kenny never seeming to be able to get out of harm's way. I giggle whenever Mindy says "Okay, Lady, love you byebye!" But its something that's very different from anime, and anime is what I prefer.

If you decide you would like to perhaps give some other anime a try, please feel free to ask for suggestions. While I haven't seen nearly as many anime as other people (I've only finished up around 30 series thus far), I have seen a decent variety, and I'm sure others would have suggestions as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:02 am 
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I like anime for the same reason I like any other show: it just catches my interest. And, like Mylene said, I feel a generally better connection with the characters than in alot of North American shows. I feel like I can relate better, even if just on an appearance level.

Another thing I really love is the continuity. How many times in a North American cartoon do they have flashbacks that actually relate to the story? As far as I've seen, after an episode of a North American cartoon - bearing in mind that there will obviously be some exceptions - it seems like what happened in that episode never actually happened because nothing in the next episode relates to it. Continuity is a huge deciding factor in what I watch, which is why I really don't watch alot of North American TV.

Probably the other major reason for my love of anime is that I get really, really into animes. There is ONE show on TV right now that I get so wrapped up in that it triggers huge feelings of happiness, sadness or anger, but almost all the animes I've watched have done that. Also, anime introduced me to alot of things from Japan, which then made me want to learn about Japan, which then... you get it? It's a LEARNING EXPERIENCE! =P

Really though, I think the biggest thing for everybody is that there actually IS something for everyone, no matter who you are and what you like.


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 Post subject: Re: The Appeal Behind Anime...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:12 am 
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simsman24000 wrote:
Alright, guys, so I come bearing a question. I'm not a fan of anime -- in fact, I think I may very well be a disliker (is that a word? :P ) of it. I was a fan of Pokemon and Digimon when I was, like, 7, but other than those 2 staples for children, I was always just uncaring about anime as a whole.


Storyline, intruiging characters, et cetera. In other words, all the ingredients that make me like any movie, series, et cetera. It seems the anime you've viewed are all aimed towards children. Have you ever watched Cowboy Bebop: The Movie, Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex, or Samurai Champloo? These are animes that aim towards more mature audiences, and the writing for them are generally just as good as any quality non-animated movie or series. I even see a lot of talent by these Japanese writers in these more mature audience-oriented animes, often more so than by those responsible for the scripts of top-notch American flicks. Really, the only major difference is the use of a certain style of cartooning rather than the use of CGI and real-life characters and environment. In fact, the use of cartooning allows for the crazy but spectacular ideas of the writers of such animes as those I mentioned to be made more convincing and done with having to make less concessions in the text-to-motion picture conversion of the ideas.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:43 am 
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Like everyone else has said, anime is much deeper that most American cartoons. There are plotlines that change over a span of dozens of episodes, characters that grow and develop (Example: Ren from Shaman King started out as the main evil person.), and situations you can really connect with. I also think it's interesting that so many common experiences that are shared by everyone can be woven into intricate, otherworldly storylines and fit right in. I could watch every episode of The Simpsons or Spongebob or something and, aside from laughing hysterically a few times, not get a sense of feeling at all. But after just one FMA DVD, I was practically living in it. My mom actually had to come check on me because I was crying my eyes out.

I guess that brings me to my next point; anime is sort of a world I can escape into when I don't feel like dealing with everything anymore. If I've had a bad day or if I need to relax, I'll open VLC and watch Shaman King. If I'm bored and I want to trip out and wrap my mind about something, I'll put on Lain. If I'm feeling especially emotional, well, that's what Miyazaki movies are for. Even if I can't have magic powers or a huge, room-filling computer in real life, I can look into a world where it's possible, and where people live with those things everyday. The artwork is so detailed and realistic and the characters are so believable that you can easily lose yourself in it.

I would definitely suggest watching something deeper, as Hyperion said. Ghost in the Shell is good; I would add Serial Experiments Lain, Princess Mononoke (Which really doesn't feel like anime), or even Fullmetal Alchemist for something with a good mix of humor and drama. You can't look at all anime as being like Pokemon or DBZ, because it isn't, as obvious as that sounds. :P I guess what's really nice about the genre is that there's something for everyone :)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:08 am 
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Most of this has already been said, but I might as well verify it. :P

American cartoons tend to lack any real innovation, great story, characters, anything really. The characters seem to have very little personality and the story usually doesn't carry on, instead it's a bunch of chopped up episodes with really no connection (in most cases). Characters in anime are actually memorable and likable, I can't say the same about other cartooning, sans the old Bugs Bunny and Warner Brothers works, but I like those in a completely different aspect.

The stories are almost non-existant in most cases, but in anime, things are actually woven together much like a book, there's actually a point to what is going on, and there are actually cliff-hangers. Voice acting is done arguably better in anime and by great voice actors too (not that other cartooning never has great voice acting).

Anime covers every base you can think of (literally), lots of people don't just like anime (as in liking something just because it's anime), they like certain anime because there is always something to appeal to every single person (I would cry if there wasn't, because I'm that sure that there is). I have met people that shun it just because it's anime, which is disappointing really. Even though I'm not anime obsessed (I truthfully rarely watch them), I can easily say that a person that hates all anime hasn't watched enough of it to make such a claim. Believe me, there's so much more than the mainsteam junk that is thrown around so much on television now (Yugi-oh, Pokemon, Zatchbell, etc.), like the Japanese subtitled version of the said anime. I absolutely detest the American version of Naruto (it's taken away just about everything that makes Naruto so great), but I love the Japanese version. I'm not necessarily eager to listen to dialogue that I can't understand and have to read what is being said, but still, overall, great things come out of it.

Not only that but the overall quality of the work seems to out-do that of most American main-stream cartooning. I've never watched an American (I'm only saying American because I have no idea what else to call it, it's not necessarily American though. :P) cartoon and been in awe of the artwork, ever. Some of the anime artwork is done by extremely talented people who come up with a very satisfying product.

The overall product in almost, if not every aspect, outshines the American mainstream toons. Heck, most anime can outshine American mainstream television in general, as it's even deeper than some sitcoms. While it is a matter of personal taste, I really think some of the most interesting television comes out of anime.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:35 am 
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Another addition from me:

#No 5. It's a learning experience. One on many levels.

- First off, you learn about Japanese culture through the way they portray their stories, how they display their traditional culture (Onsens, bathing, school life, ceremony etc). You learn how madly religious and superstitious they are despite saying that they have no religion, you learn their folk tales and myths.

You also see how young people in Japan are really like (see shows like Paradise Kiss), and are given insights into the thousands of strange subcultures that have developed.

- You can learn another language. Anime uses a fairly limited base dialouge so eventually you can understand the words they say, you can even learn a small amount of characters, but mainly just a listening intepret thing. Though you would have to watch alot of anime. Alot.

- You learn how Japanese see themselves. If you know anything about history it's like a lesson in irony and denial. Every show has Japanese people as the heroes, saving the world, making breakthrough inventions. In reality the Japanese were the worst or at least worst equal in the second world war, I say the worst because they still deny what they did was wrong. So it shows you how Japanese see themselves and it's kinda disturbing, but a learning experience none the less.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:33 am 
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Well I agree with everything said, just wanna add my two cents :)

I confess I watched pokemon/digimon for years, never realizing how much more there was out there.

Once I actually saw the original version of an anime, as others have said the intricacy in the plots and stories drew me in immediately. I'm not sure how to phrase this but , the feelings I get when watching anime are far beyond anything from watching American cartoons. What I mean by that is that I seem to laugh more, and definitely cry more, heck I even get goosebumps when watching some shows. Basically, I can connect with the anime I watch in a way that I can't with other cartoons. I find it amazing how with some anime the histories of the characters are so deeply woven that by the time you finish the anime, you actually miss that character. It seems like you've become part of them and their lives.

I find nothing wrong with american cartoons, I'm just drawn to anime more. Anime has gotten me interested in Japanese culture and although some of the things may not be the same as in anime, it has intrigued me.

There are my thoughts, they may or may not be new :P


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:01 am 
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I very recently read a review about an anime film called Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust and thought I'd quote it here. Though -- again -- it's a review for a particular anime, I feel it speaks of the genre itself and gives much in reply to the question the author of this topic seeks to have answered.

My fascination with anime grew out of an old hobby of mine, painting miniature figures. One day I discovered a Japanese magazine, called 'Replicant,' and literally, a completely new world opened up to me. One of the first figures I saw in those pages was a sculpted rendering of smurf Amano's Vampire Hunter D images. The demonic beauty of that figure haunted me, even though I could only guess at what story was behind it. At that time, American access to anime was still largely undeveloped.

Now, of course, the opposite is true. There is no excuse for not seeing Director Yoshiaki Kawajiri's production of the novel written by Hideyuki Kikuchi and strikingly realized by Amano. For the film, For the film, Yutaka Minowa based his character designs on Amano's work, and, if anything, has gone one level better than the originals. Simply put, this film is visually stunning. The illustration is finely detailed and graceful, whether in repose or furious action. This is true for characters, artifacts and scenery. Often, while watching, the sense of dimensionality is so strong that you will find yourself looking twice to make sure that all this is still animation.

The plot is as complex as the artwork. Set in 12090 AD, the story is about D, who is a Dun Peal - a rare vampire human hybrid shunned by both races. In this future world, vampires, once the cruel lords of the Earth, are finally on the run. Few are left, and they are frequently hunted down for bounty. D is hired by a family to recover their daughter Charlotte, who has been kidnapped by Meier Link, one of the most deadly of the surviving vampires. Charlotte's family does not completely trust D, and have also hired the Markus Brothers for the same task. The story's main theme is the parallel chase after Meier Link, and the resulting competition between bounty hunters.

... In addition, he unexpectedly develops a strange bond with Leila, the beautiful and deadly distaff member of the Markus team. While love is not an emotion D allows himself, he and Leila learn to respect each other. They are the romantic balance to the relationship between Link and Charlotte. One couple loves impossibly, and the other finds love impossible.

Providing comic relief is Left Hand, D's companion. Yes, his left hand has somehow become part demon, and keeps up a steady stream of sarcasm, unwelcome advice, and complaint. As peculiar as this sounds, Kawajiri makes it work perfectly on film. I also have to compliment the invisible human cast, who provide the animations with voices and noises in a completely natural and compelling fashion. Nor should I fail to mention the musical score, which is the equal of 'Ghost in the Machine,' which only recently was my favorite animated film.

The DVD provides the obligatory trailers, an interesting comparison of the original storyboards to the final renderings, and a long, interesting behind the scenes segment. The latter is quite eye opening, giving me a much greater awareness of the complexities of animated film production. The film has an R rating, almost entirely due to violence, but is otherwise inoffensive. To some degree, I think the film deserves a more lenient rating. In any case, this is clearly a 'must see' if you are at all interested in the state of Japanese anime.


Another review by the same person, this time about an anime film called Perfect Blue:

Based on a novel by Yoshikazu Takeuchi, 'Perfect Blue' is one of those anime that successfully attempt the unexpected. Written and paced more like a Hitchcock film than the typical action film, this is a story where the psychological aspects are as compelling as the sometimes-ferocious action.

Mima Kirigoe is an idol singer, part of a moderately successful trio called Cham. Since the career life of these singers is, at best, a matter of a few years, Mima has decided to leave Cham to try her hand at being an actress. She lands a part in 'Double Bind,' a suspense thriller that will test her commitment in many ways, putting her in situations that some of her old fans find uncomfortable. This explodes into her life in a big way when Mima finds an internet website that purports to be written by her.

Whoever is writing the site knows too much about what Mima is going through, and she finds herself stalked by an unhappy fan that has developed a fixation on her. Soon people are dying in gruesome circumstances, and Mima becomes more and more confused about whom she really is and what is real. First time director Satoshi Kon is merciless, making sure that the viewer gets few clues about which reality is real and whether what one sees is in 'Double Bind,' 'Perfect Blue,' or in Mima's mind alone.

This is really a remarkable piece of work. Great care is put into artistic and musical values. It has striking graphic qualities without the viewer ever getting the feeling that the images are overwhelming the story. In addition, I particularly like the imaginative use of color. Of course, the use of music is particularly important in a film about Japanese popular entertainment figures, and Kon makes sure that the film lives up to aural expectations.

[...] It isn't by my standards, but 'Perfect Blue' is graphic enough to offend some people. Take this into consideration before deciding to watch.

[Note: I snipped a portion of the above review to prevent possible incursion of Anime/Manga Board Rule #3.]

Definite contrast from even the more "serious" American cartoon films, the talked about anime film struck me as from the above review.


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