Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:08 pm
On the other hand, from all information currently available, it seems that in order to make a Horcrux you have to murder someone. Also, it seems to be regarded as a Very Bad Thing to do.
So it doesn't strike me as the sort of thing Dumbledore is likely to have done.
I'm curious if the 7th book will clarify what exactly the relationship between a person and their portrait actually is. Presumably Dumbledore's protrait in the headmaster's office connected to Dubledore himself in someway, but how exactly?
So it doesn't strike me as the sort of thing Dumbledore is likely to have done.
I'm curious if the 7th book will clarify what exactly the relationship between a person and their portrait actually is. Presumably Dumbledore's protrait in the headmaster's office connected to Dubledore himself in someway, but how exactly?
Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:42 am
bgryph wrote:Qanda wrote:Shoyru_Lover wrote:Hmm, sorry if I've rehashed something... but you guys know how avadakedavra doesn't work unless you mean it right? Maybe... Snape didn't really kill Dumbledore... and it was all an act... and in the process... etc. etc. etc.
Snape looked at Dumbledore with burning hatred before killing him. Not meaning it, eh?
Snape had a look of hatred and revulsion on his face before killing Dumbledore. It doesn't say Snape was experienceing hatred towards Dumbledore, although that was clearly Harry's inference. Rowling describes Harry's emotions before giving Dumbledore the potion in almost exactly the same terms. Harry was clearly experiencing revulsion towards the act he was being asked to perform (and maybe towards himself) and this could have been true of Snape as well.
Exactly.
**quotes self from several pages back**
Sapphire Faerie wrote:Also, on the subject of Snape:
From Chapter 26, The Cave, page 571 in the American edition:Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, Harry forced the goblet back toward Dumbledore's mouth and tipped it, so that Dumbledore drank the remainder of the potion inside.
From Chapter 27, The Lightning-Struck Tower, page 595 in the American edition:Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.
They both promised Dumbledore to do something they didn't want to do. They both hated doing it, but they did it anyway. Because it was what he wanted.
Also, I doubt Dumbledore would've made a horcrux. He never seemed to me like the sort of person that would want to cheat death. Unlike Voldemort.
Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:46 am
I'd also like to see how the portrait thing works they've always been around but now that a previously living character is in one I hope the idea is going to be expanded upon.
In my current slow re-read of the book I have been pondering the Half Blood Prince's book and it made me think of a few things (which may be utter waffle but hey). An old potions book belonging to the long time potions master of Hogwarts, full of his own additions is lying carelessly in the potions cupboard. A little odd no? You'd think that Snape having been there all those years would have either kept his old book full of his scribblings or at least found it again later. At the very least you would expect him to know the contents of his potions cupboard particularly when one old potions book is full of his old (and slightly dangerous) scribblings. If he did know then I am supposing that Snape knew Harry would be eligible for potions along with Ron now that Slughorn was the new teacher - Harry (trouble magnet) was therefore bound to be in contact with this carelessly strewn book. For one of the following reasons:
a) to teach him more potions - doubtful given his past teaching techniques though I suppose he could be the master of reverse psychology
But it may be to help him once he has left Hogwarts and is in pursuit of Voldemort and the death eaters to know non-curriculum magic. I don't know how much use potions is but as we are constantly reminded there are poisons without cures etc, and Harry's new found (previously taught and forgotten) knowledge does save Ron's life. Harry also seems to have found a new enthusiasm for potions through the book.
b) to help him get a good grade in Potions - could Auror training help Harry more after school? Considering Harry is not very well practised in non-verbal spells I am assuming there is a lot more for him to learn. Perhaps the next book will be set in the Auror world of training as it would make sense for him to learn a lot more magic before the next show down.
c) to get in Slughorns good books - Dumbledore has told Snape of his plans for Harry to retrieve information willingly from Slughorn. Snape is as ever doubtful of Harry's talents and so throws him a bone.
or d) the book is not meant for Harry but Malfoy. Snape did not think that Harry or Ron would be taking potions due to their grade and as part of his mission to help Malfoy when the kid doesn't even want his help he plants the book in the class room. We already know it contained one nasty curse and maybe there was more besides.
Or Snape does not know the book is there which for the reasons at the beginning of my post would be rather odd. Surely he would have noticed? Unless the book was put there after Snape left his lair. Slughorn planted the book perhaps, though he does a good job of pretending he doesn't know that. But then he is a master of concealment. If Snape did know I suppose it would support the theory of Snape being on the good side of the narrow line (unless it was for Malfoy in which case it doesn't really settle it one way or the other), if he didn't know then perhaps there is more to Slughorn (or someone else) than we have been allowed to know so far.
Or maybe, just maybe, it means nothing at all
In my current slow re-read of the book I have been pondering the Half Blood Prince's book and it made me think of a few things (which may be utter waffle but hey). An old potions book belonging to the long time potions master of Hogwarts, full of his own additions is lying carelessly in the potions cupboard. A little odd no? You'd think that Snape having been there all those years would have either kept his old book full of his scribblings or at least found it again later. At the very least you would expect him to know the contents of his potions cupboard particularly when one old potions book is full of his old (and slightly dangerous) scribblings. If he did know then I am supposing that Snape knew Harry would be eligible for potions along with Ron now that Slughorn was the new teacher - Harry (trouble magnet) was therefore bound to be in contact with this carelessly strewn book. For one of the following reasons:
a) to teach him more potions - doubtful given his past teaching techniques though I suppose he could be the master of reverse psychology
But it may be to help him once he has left Hogwarts and is in pursuit of Voldemort and the death eaters to know non-curriculum magic. I don't know how much use potions is but as we are constantly reminded there are poisons without cures etc, and Harry's new found (previously taught and forgotten) knowledge does save Ron's life. Harry also seems to have found a new enthusiasm for potions through the book.
b) to help him get a good grade in Potions - could Auror training help Harry more after school? Considering Harry is not very well practised in non-verbal spells I am assuming there is a lot more for him to learn. Perhaps the next book will be set in the Auror world of training as it would make sense for him to learn a lot more magic before the next show down.
c) to get in Slughorns good books - Dumbledore has told Snape of his plans for Harry to retrieve information willingly from Slughorn. Snape is as ever doubtful of Harry's talents and so throws him a bone.
or d) the book is not meant for Harry but Malfoy. Snape did not think that Harry or Ron would be taking potions due to their grade and as part of his mission to help Malfoy when the kid doesn't even want his help he plants the book in the class room. We already know it contained one nasty curse and maybe there was more besides.
Or Snape does not know the book is there which for the reasons at the beginning of my post would be rather odd. Surely he would have noticed? Unless the book was put there after Snape left his lair. Slughorn planted the book perhaps, though he does a good job of pretending he doesn't know that. But then he is a master of concealment. If Snape did know I suppose it would support the theory of Snape being on the good side of the narrow line (unless it was for Malfoy in which case it doesn't really settle it one way or the other), if he didn't know then perhaps there is more to Slughorn (or someone else) than we have been allowed to know so far.
Or maybe, just maybe, it means nothing at all
Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:38 am
Trick wrote:Perhaps the next book will be set in the Auror world of training as it would make sense for him to learn a lot more magic before the next show down.
Perhaps, in the next book, Harry might accept Scrimgeour's offer of being the Ministry's poster-boy in exchange for some Auror training.
Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:47 am
I did think the whole bit with the book was a bit strange. Given that textbooks are student's personal property, and given how marked-up this particular copy was, he'd hardly have left it behind at Hogwarts when he graduated (as could have happened had he himself been borrowing it from a class set).
If it was Snape's personal book he'd brought back with him when he started teaching at Hogwarts, which seems likely, you'd think he would have kept it in his office, not the classroom. Generally speaking a teacher keeps a personal copy of the textbok they're teaching from, after all, though I suppose he may have gotten a clean copy and made notes he'd find more useful as a teacher. ("Note to self: Idiot kids aren't going to understand this bit. Don't forget to sneer disdainfully.")
Leaving the book just lying around seems a bit careless for Snape, who may enjoy a Slytherin cursing a Gryffindor now and again, but overall seemed to appreciate order in the halls and well-behaved students as much as the next teacher. You'd think the sort of spells he found entertaining as a student would be the last thing he'd want to see going around Hogwarts.
I wonder if it means anything that Snape's mother and Tom Riddle were (apparently) in school at same time? Though, I guess that's true of pretty much anyone his age.
If it was Snape's personal book he'd brought back with him when he started teaching at Hogwarts, which seems likely, you'd think he would have kept it in his office, not the classroom. Generally speaking a teacher keeps a personal copy of the textbok they're teaching from, after all, though I suppose he may have gotten a clean copy and made notes he'd find more useful as a teacher. ("Note to self: Idiot kids aren't going to understand this bit. Don't forget to sneer disdainfully.")
Leaving the book just lying around seems a bit careless for Snape, who may enjoy a Slytherin cursing a Gryffindor now and again, but overall seemed to appreciate order in the halls and well-behaved students as much as the next teacher. You'd think the sort of spells he found entertaining as a student would be the last thing he'd want to see going around Hogwarts.
I wonder if it means anything that Snape's mother and Tom Riddle were (apparently) in school at same time? Though, I guess that's true of pretty much anyone his age.
Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:53 am
Even if the hatred was not meant for Dumbledore, he is was killed and because he was killed, he is now dead. Snape didn't have much of a choice in that matter anyway. He made an unbreakable vow. That and, perhaps, he really is on "the Dark Side". We'll see, we'll see.
Besides, Dumbledore's death is the proverbial last straw for Harry. It's the event that truly gave him backbone and resolution. Harry never actively and conciously sought out Voldemort (or at least like this) before. Dumbledore's death is a turningpoint (or at least a huge crisis for the hero), crucial for his new determination and pace of the next book. The death of the master - usually through betrayal and gruesome murder, often by former students - is always an important plot point to set fire under the hero.
Besides, Dumbledore's death is the proverbial last straw for Harry. It's the event that truly gave him backbone and resolution. Harry never actively and conciously sought out Voldemort (or at least like this) before. Dumbledore's death is a turningpoint (or at least a huge crisis for the hero), crucial for his new determination and pace of the next book. The death of the master - usually through betrayal and gruesome murder, often by former students - is always an important plot point to set fire under the hero.
Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:34 am
Every death brings those in denial. "Sirius isn't really dead. He'll come crawling back out of the curtain! Just wait!" and "Dumbledore might come back to life! He's a phoenix!"
Deaths are necessary though, and I'm glad J.K. can see that. She's not afraid to kill off loved characters. She's being realistic. Sometimes the good guys die, and you just have to accept it.
I'm still hoping Harry dies at the end of book 7. And when (when, not if ;P) he does, I wonder how people are gonna manage to deny it.
Deaths are necessary though, and I'm glad J.K. can see that. She's not afraid to kill off loved characters. She's being realistic. Sometimes the good guys die, and you just have to accept it.
I'm still hoping Harry dies at the end of book 7. And when (when, not if ;P) he does, I wonder how people are gonna manage to deny it.
Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:52 am
Sapphire Faerie wrote: I wonder how people are gonna manage to deny it.
- Jumping
- Fingers in Ears, hands over eyes
- Fanfiction
- Blackmail
Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:40 pm
No way Dumbledore made a Horcrux. Horcruxes are supposed to be highly advanced dark magic, so why would Dumbledore make one? Not to mention you have to murder someone in order to do it, and I don't think Dumbledore would murder someone so he could still have half a soul after he's dead.
Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:40 pm
I'll prove all the Dumbledore/Horcrux believers wrong with one sentence.
Maiming one's soul mains the body as well.
Voldie looked barely human after seven Horcruxes. If Dumbledore made a Horcrux, he wouldn't look as human as people would think. And the shriveled hand wouldn't be the maiming I'm referrng to. As we have seen the maiming affects the whole body, not just one portion.
Maiming one's soul mains the body as well.
Voldie looked barely human after seven Horcruxes. If Dumbledore made a Horcrux, he wouldn't look as human as people would think. And the shriveled hand wouldn't be the maiming I'm referrng to. As we have seen the maiming affects the whole body, not just one portion.
Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:33 pm
A thing about harry being a horcrux, maybe he isn't not horcrux, but actually harry's scar? Dont' know if this been posted already but just a thought.
Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:19 am
(*Dranzer*) wrote:I'll prove all the Dumbledore/Horcrux believers wrong with one sentence.
Maiming one's soul mains the body as well.
Voldie looked barely human after seven Horcruxes. If Dumbledore made a Horcrux, he wouldn't look as human as people would think. And the shriveled hand wouldn't be the maiming I'm referrng to. As we have seen the maiming affects the whole body, not just one portion.
But didn't he only look un-human because he created more than one horcrux. Wasn't the line in the book something along the lines of by creating so many horcruxes, he messed up his soul so much that it messed up his body as well?
As for Harry's scar being a Horcrux, that is a theory I've been hearing a lot on other boards too. Also, for those who don't know, JK has said that the last word of book 7 is "scar".
Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:34 am
I kind of think Dumbledore had a Horcrux.
I know I'm wrong, but it's interesting to think about.
Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald (or whatever hid name was). I interpret that as "killed." Could he possibly have made a Horcrux then?
But, then what would he choose as his Horcrux? When he started talking about Nagini being one, I started to think. Dumbledore has been close with Fawkes. Fawkes helped Harry in CoS, and he helped Dumbledore escape in OotP. When Dumbledore said that animals shouldn't be used as Horcruxes because they die easily or something, I thought about how the Phoenix lives for 1000 years, but never actually dies, because when it explodes it is reborn. Is it possible Fawkes was Dumbledore's Horcrux?
Then I snapped back into reality. Dumbledore's dead. Never liked him anyway.
I know I'm wrong, but it's interesting to think about.
Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald (or whatever hid name was). I interpret that as "killed." Could he possibly have made a Horcrux then?
But, then what would he choose as his Horcrux? When he started talking about Nagini being one, I started to think. Dumbledore has been close with Fawkes. Fawkes helped Harry in CoS, and he helped Dumbledore escape in OotP. When Dumbledore said that animals shouldn't be used as Horcruxes because they die easily or something, I thought about how the Phoenix lives for 1000 years, but never actually dies, because when it explodes it is reborn. Is it possible Fawkes was Dumbledore's Horcrux?
Then I snapped back into reality. Dumbledore's dead. Never liked him anyway.
Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:04 am
Last word being "scar" i thought and talked about that it might be "Harry, where is your scar?" yeah not the greatest ending in the world but it makes you think for a bit. But even JK isn't even sure if the last word is going to be scar.
Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:17 am
I thought she wasn't even planning on starting Book 7 until the end of this year?