Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:15 pm
fructy wrote:Didn't battledomers in the meridell war earn opponents too for fighting the big boss Darigan, even though they only lost? (I'm not sure, I never participated in that war)
Although Darigan was an opponent in the final wave of that war (and counted for points in that case), the boss fight with him as the Spectre of Darigan occured way after that war offically ended and did not count for any points towards those scores if you lost to him.
Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:59 pm
And I, personally, will be very very annoyed if fighting the Mayor DOES count for a lot of points because it was so time-limited.
I mean, I faithfully followed the plot the entire time and did every stage, and I totally missed fighting the Mayor and the end of the plot because I was out of town for 3 days with no Internet access for a work-related event.
If I lose out prize-wise just because of that I will be annoyed.
From that point of view, it makes a certain amount of sense for the more time-limited events not to count, or at least not to count for a lot. There's a limit to how long each stage of the plot needs to stay open, of course, but IMHO people should be able to go out of town for a few days and still follow the plot.
I could see making the time-limited events worth points, but not huge numbers of points, so that people could miss out on one or two of them and still afford the top prize. People who managed all of them could get extra points as a bonus.
I personally think the event that should be worth the most points was the potions. It was by far the most work, it was up for long enough that most people should have had a chance to take a whack at it, and it didn't have problems with limited availability or lag issues. Pretty much anyone willing to put forth the effort should have been able to finish that part.
I mean, I faithfully followed the plot the entire time and did every stage, and I totally missed fighting the Mayor and the end of the plot because I was out of town for 3 days with no Internet access for a work-related event.
If I lose out prize-wise just because of that I will be annoyed.
From that point of view, it makes a certain amount of sense for the more time-limited events not to count, or at least not to count for a lot. There's a limit to how long each stage of the plot needs to stay open, of course, but IMHO people should be able to go out of town for a few days and still follow the plot.
I could see making the time-limited events worth points, but not huge numbers of points, so that people could miss out on one or two of them and still afford the top prize. People who managed all of them could get extra points as a bonus.
I personally think the event that should be worth the most points was the potions. It was by far the most work, it was up for long enough that most people should have had a chance to take a whack at it, and it didn't have problems with limited availability or lag issues. Pretty much anyone willing to put forth the effort should have been able to finish that part.
Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:12 pm
bgryph wrote:And I, personally, will be very very annoyed if fighting the Mayor DOES count for a lot of points because it was so time-limited.
(...) From that point of view, it makes a certain amount of sense for the more time-limited events not to count, or at least not to count for a lot. There's a limit to how long each stage of the plot needs to stay open, of course, but IMHO people should be able to go out of town for a few days and still follow the plot.
I could see making the time-limited events worth points, but not huge numbers of points, so that people could miss out on one or two of them and still afford the top prize. People who managed all of them could get extra points as a bonus.
While it will certainly help me if the time-limited things don't count (since I was rather late to the party and missed the grave stuff), I don't think it's fair (or effective) for them not to count. I mean, it would certainly make it easier for those of us who have other obligations if those things don't count for much, but if they don't count, then where's the incentive and reward to actually do them? Things should be worth more points specifically because they aren't easy to do, whether in terms of complexity or time limits. Sure, it's frustrating to miss something because you don't have time to complete it before the limit is up (as I've done before), but the fact that there is a time limit means you have to have some kind of, well, dedication to do it, and that ought to be rewarded.
Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:59 pm
fructy wrote:
I think alot of people will be upset if they didn't get any points for it. It doesn't take any skill to lose, but it will ruin someones bd-score to lose a 100 times.
Yes, yes it will. But no one was forced to do that. That's something a lot of people decided to do on the off-chance that losing to the mayor counts for a lot of points. TNT didn't promise -- and doesn't owe -- anyone anything for deliberately ruining their record.
Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:28 am
I can understand why people get concerned about the points, but if you completed the plot, I don't think it will make a huge difference. If you can't get a prize you really want, you could always buy it after selling off a different prize. It helps to take deep breaths before thinking about the plot. 
Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:29 pm
I completely agree yvonne. *takes deep breaths*
If everything time limited didn't count then everyone who completed the plot would get the same prize... the only differentiation in prizes would be for people who stopped at certain stages... because going by the "time limit" logic of it not being fair as you could be out of time then completing a stage quickly shouldn't have any bearing as you could have not been on when it was released.... When we start talking about timing there's no question of "fair" just "lucky".
I pretty much think that people who did more steps (yes including the time limited ones such as battling the mayor and grave marking) should have higher rewards because all in all they put more time into the plot. But meh, we get whatever we get.
If everything time limited didn't count then everyone who completed the plot would get the same prize... the only differentiation in prizes would be for people who stopped at certain stages... because going by the "time limit" logic of it not being fair as you could be out of time then completing a stage quickly shouldn't have any bearing as you could have not been on when it was released.... When we start talking about timing there's no question of "fair" just "lucky".
I pretty much think that people who did more steps (yes including the time limited ones such as battling the mayor and grave marking) should have higher rewards because all in all they put more time into the plot. But meh, we get whatever we get.
Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:54 pm
I liked how the LDP scoring worked. As far as I know (and I could be wrong; only TNT knows for sure how it all worked), it was like this:
-Anyone who completed every section of the plot relatively quickly (not immediately, but quickly) got a base amount of points that ended up being enough for the top prize (Ring of the Lost) and the second-best trophy.
-The first few people to do some of the steps got extra points, so we could get RotL and some other prizes, too. We also got the top trophy.
-Anyone who did the whole thing but took too long to do some steps lost some points, making them fall just short of the RotL. They got a decent trophy.
-Everyone who just did a few sections was rewarded with an appropriate trophy and points depending on how much they did.
-The events that took less than a day, or that rewarded people with items as they happened, didn't count for points, because not everyone had the opportunity to participate/we got rewarded as we went.
That all worked for me, and I hope this is similar.
-Anyone who completed every section of the plot relatively quickly (not immediately, but quickly) got a base amount of points that ended up being enough for the top prize (Ring of the Lost) and the second-best trophy.
-The first few people to do some of the steps got extra points, so we could get RotL and some other prizes, too. We also got the top trophy.
-Anyone who did the whole thing but took too long to do some steps lost some points, making them fall just short of the RotL. They got a decent trophy.
-Everyone who just did a few sections was rewarded with an appropriate trophy and points depending on how much they did.
-The events that took less than a day, or that rewarded people with items as they happened, didn't count for points, because not everyone had the opportunity to participate/we got rewarded as we went.
That all worked for me, and I hope this is similar.
Last edited by Cranberry on Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:29 pm
On one hand, I worked really hard at digging and marking graves.
I didn't get any good prizes from digging, and obviously they weren't giving out prizes for marking.
So if they're not even worth a little bit, then I'll be mad.
I couldn't fight in the battledome because my pet wasn't strong enough to fight the stronger waves, when the lag finally died down, so I hope that doesn't could for much, but I'm sure it will.
Either way... this will really affect how I handle plots in the future. If I see that battling is worth a lot of points again, I'll waste my hours at the computer crying and screaming and attempting to get into a laggy battledome that kicks me out every 3 minutes, rather than doing menial "teamwork" tasks that end up worth nothing. (edit: by waste, I mean that I had a lot of homework to do, and I ended up not doing it during the grave marking and digging, since I could do that, and did it during the battling, since I couldn't do that)
Then maybe the lag for those things will be done, and the people working their butts off for absolutely no reason will have fun with it.
I sound a little sarcastic, but why wouldn't the grave-marking be worth anything? You'd think it might be worth a point or two, even just for marking one, because there were no prizes found. And, grave-marking went on for 2 days, didn't it? I remember spending at least one full night at work just marking graves, so I can't see why "not everybody got a chance to do it". That just seems like (no offense to those who are using it, just pointing it out) a really lame excuse. Not everybody got a chance to finish their potions, not everybody got a chance to get to the asylum, not everybody was able to fight their way through an hour and a half of sitting at a computer trying desperatly in vain to even SEE the battledome, much less actually fight there.
Not giving point for grave-digging makes sense, since people got Paint Brushes and Sludgies and such, but it would seriously kill my ambition to work out the steps of a plot if the rest of the steps didn't actually mean anything.
I didn't get any good prizes from digging, and obviously they weren't giving out prizes for marking.
So if they're not even worth a little bit, then I'll be mad.
I couldn't fight in the battledome because my pet wasn't strong enough to fight the stronger waves, when the lag finally died down, so I hope that doesn't could for much, but I'm sure it will.
Either way... this will really affect how I handle plots in the future. If I see that battling is worth a lot of points again, I'll waste my hours at the computer crying and screaming and attempting to get into a laggy battledome that kicks me out every 3 minutes, rather than doing menial "teamwork" tasks that end up worth nothing. (edit: by waste, I mean that I had a lot of homework to do, and I ended up not doing it during the grave marking and digging, since I could do that, and did it during the battling, since I couldn't do that)
Then maybe the lag for those things will be done, and the people working their butts off for absolutely no reason will have fun with it.
I sound a little sarcastic, but why wouldn't the grave-marking be worth anything? You'd think it might be worth a point or two, even just for marking one, because there were no prizes found. And, grave-marking went on for 2 days, didn't it? I remember spending at least one full night at work just marking graves, so I can't see why "not everybody got a chance to do it". That just seems like (no offense to those who are using it, just pointing it out) a really lame excuse. Not everybody got a chance to finish their potions, not everybody got a chance to get to the asylum, not everybody was able to fight their way through an hour and a half of sitting at a computer trying desperatly in vain to even SEE the battledome, much less actually fight there.
Not giving point for grave-digging makes sense, since people got Paint Brushes and Sludgies and such, but it would seriously kill my ambition to work out the steps of a plot if the rest of the steps didn't actually mean anything.
Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:52 pm
psyco_chick32 wrote: And, grave-marking went on for 2 days, didn't it? I remember spending at least one full night at work just marking graves, so I can't see why "not everybody got a chance to do it". That just seems like (no offense to those who are using it, just pointing it out) a really lame excuse.
As I mentioned, mayor went on for 3 days (maybe? I wasn't there) and I totally missed him because I was at a conference and didn't have Internet access. The fact that I'm hardly going to miss an important work-related event on the off-chance something important will happen plotwise doesn't mean I'm not working on the plot or not dedicated to the plot. Not everybody can get on the Internet every day, let alone be able to spend a lot of time on the Internet fighting for graves to mark on any given day.
It's true there's a limit -- there's a good chance people who leave town for two weeks are going to miss something, otherwise plots would move too slowly -- but a few days is just too short, IMO. The other events you mentioned, potions and asylum, were open for more than 2 days. (Remember, the ability to make potions didn't stop when the asylum started.)
Also, to be brutally honest, if you decide to participate in a plot you're always taking the chance you're not going to get anything good. Of all the plots and wars that have happened since I got here, I have to say that IMHO only in the LDP and the Altador Cup did most people get prizes that were commensurate with the amount of effort they put in. In the second Meridell war, for example, I put in hours and hours battling and got a prize worth 20k. Good payout on my time, huh? But I wasn't doing it for the prize, I was doing it to watch the little numbers under my trophy go up. :-)
Really, if you don't think that participating in the plot or war is worthwhile for its own sake, I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't participate past that point. If you're nearly crying with frustration at any point in an Internet game, then IMHO it's time to quit for the night and try again later. I have to say when I participated in LDP I didn't expect to get anything as good as a I ultimately did, but I schlepped through that damned scroll reading anyway because I was determined to finish that :bleep:ing plot.
I have no problem with people who do extra things getting extra points, but if I don't get enough points to get the equivalent of the RotL just because I was unlucky enough to be out of town at the wrong time I will be annoyed. That's because I think setting up the plot around the expectation that people will never be away from the Internet is unreasonable. However, I still won't regret participating. It was fun. Frustrating at times, but overall it was fun.
Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:37 pm
bgryph wrote:It's true there's a limit -- there's a good chance people who leave town for two weeks are going to miss something, otherwise plots would move too slowly -- but a few days is just too short, IMO. The other events you mentioned, potions and asylum, were open for more than 2 days. (Remember, the ability to make potions didn't stop when the asylum started.)
But the fighting was also a time related thing. Some waves were open for only a few days and people could also miss that because they were away for a few days, yet TNT already stated we would get points for that.
To me it seems fair that gravemarking etc would get people a small amount of extra points. It shouldn't count a great deal, but it should count some.
I also think beating the mayor should get you points. Not alot though.
Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:02 pm
TNT didn't state how many points we would get for it, though, or that people who killed a lot more enemies would get a lot more points.
Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:04 pm
psyco_chick32 wrote:And, grave-marking went on for 2 days, didn't it? I remember spending at least one full night at work just marking graves, so I can't see why "not everybody got a chance to do it". That just seems like (no offense to those who are using it, just pointing it out) a really lame excuse. Not everybody got a chance to finish their potions, not everybody got a chance to get to the asylum, not everybody was able to fight their way through an hour and a half of sitting at a computer trying desperatly in vain to even SEE the battledome, much less actually fight there.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that grave marking didn't go on for more that a day. Less than twenty four hours, if I remember correctly. When I went to bed, there was no new plot step yet after the bone had been identified. When I woke up the next day, grave making was already done. I was around every day, hours on end, working on the plot, I didn't miss a single day, and I still didn't get a chance to mark a single grave.
Yes, not everyone got a chance to do every part of the plot, some people had jobs and school and other obligations that took up their time, some were out of town and didn't have computer access, some just couldn't figure out some steps, that's life. But everyone had equal opportunity to complete those steps, even if they couldn't for whatever reason. But grave marking was so short that many people didn't even get a chance at all, regardless of weather they had time to play or not. That's my only gripe with it. A few days is fair time to give everyone a chance, a day or less is not.
Gah, I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear. I'm just saying that grave marking was different than the other steps, even the time limited battles. But that's just my opinion. I don't know whether I think it should count or not. And that doesn't matter anyway, since I don't make the rules. XD
Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:16 am
How many people actually completed the plot? I guess I'll set up a poll in the poll section.
http://www.pinkpt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30787
http://www.pinkpt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30787
Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:31 am
I'm upset hat the battling didn't go for longer, I went on vacation just after the first wave was released. I was able to get on a computer, but the connection was really really slow, then with the incredible lag, in my $2 15 minutes, I was able to finish one battle.
I was only away for a weekend, but enough to miss just about all of that.
I was only away for a weekend, but enough to miss just about all of that.
Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:39 am
It's hard for me to describe. But really, I found a way to say it:
I really don't care if grave-marking doesn't count for points... as long as battling doesn't count for a super-huge amount of points, either. Both were timed, both had major lag issues.
If battling gives a massive percentage of the points, and grave-digging doesn't even give one, I'll be very upset.
I really don't care if grave-marking doesn't count for points... as long as battling doesn't count for a super-huge amount of points, either. Both were timed, both had major lag issues.
If battling gives a massive percentage of the points, and grave-digging doesn't even give one, I'll be very upset.