Morality on Reporting

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Rognik · #1 Post by **Rognik** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:05 pm

I saw someone in the Trading Post offering a Niten Hiroru Neodeck card for 6000 NP "+ 500 lenders fee". As this is illegal, I reported them to TNT. But I wonder... would it have been just as bad if I had paid the 6.5K and kept the card/resold it for the 9K it's currently going for?

Carmilla07 · #2 Post by **Carmilla07** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:23 pm

I'd say yes that would be wrong. Taking a card to keep that you both know is supposed to be leant only is against the rules as well. Two wrongs don't make a right...

matchbow · #3 Post by **matchbow** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:31 pm

Carmilla07 wrote:I'd say yes that would be wrong. Taking a card to keep that you both know is supposed to be leant only is against the rules as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Lending items is not against the rules at all. it's just considered a normal trade. then to give it back is a matter of honour. you can't report the person for lending, and they can't report you if you decide to be dishonourable and not trade back

Toropiusu · #4 Post by **Toropiusu** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:55 pm

Not true.

On the Battledome chat many people offer to lend items for free or for so-so neopoints, and most of the time give them back. Is it a warning/suspendable/freezeable offense if you don't give the items back? ~ almighty_chaos
Indeed it is.

Most people know the stories of a kind lender having their item taken, but there have also been numerous instances of a lender asking for collateral that is worth more than the item, and then running off with that collateral, leaving the lendee with an item they paid way too much for. Either way, someone is taking advantage of the other party's trust in order to knowingly rob them of items or NP. This is definitely a scam, and scammers get ALL their accounts frozen. This is why we don't recommend lending AT ALL. However, we know it's a good way for people to obtain avatars they wouldn't be able to otherwise, so this is why we allow it. Just know the risks you're taking and be VERY careful when involved in a lending situation, whether you're lending or borrowing.

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starizard · #5 Post by **starizard** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:02 pm

It *is*, however against the rules to charge (or collect a tip) for lending an item.

Same as it is illegal to pay for and/or receive payment for graphics, userlookups or pets.

I saw an article about this just the other day - I'll have to go look for it.

edit: From this week's editorial:

Is it against the rules to lend Neopets or just frowned upon? There's been yes's and no's and I'd like the truth. ~lldm2
No. It's only against the rules if you ask for or offer compensation, such as a "tip." (And trying to skirt the rule by saying things like "tips appreciated" or "you can donate to my lab fund but you don't have to" will not work.) You can send Neopets back and forth to each other all you want, but it is at your own risk.

I would imagine that it's the same way for items.

bumpty85 · #6 Post by **bumpty85** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:25 pm

i thought it was only illegal to charge a tip for lending pets in order to get avatars, not with items.

Ange · #7 Post by **Ange** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:32 pm

I'm not sure...like in the real world, it seems like most things need to be treated with common sense. However, I do believe that if tips for are against Neopets' rules for one thing, it should also apply to items and everything else.

Officer 1BDI · #8 Post by **Officer 1BDI** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:58 pm

Are tips and collateral illegal? I know tips are, but asking for collat. just seemed like common sense to me.

matchbow · #9 Post by **matchbow** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:06 pm

collateral is fine, as long as the trader doesn't scam them out of the overpriced collateral.

bgryph · #10 Post by **bgryph** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:08 pm

I'm not sure. Tipping for loan of a pet could be considered in the same category as selling a pet, which is against the ToS.

On the other hand, selling an item is perfectly OK. So it seems possible that tipping for the loan of an item is fine (as selling an item is fine) while tipping for the loan of a pet is not (since selling a pet is not).

MatrixEquestrian · Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:29 pm

bgryph wrote:I'm not sure. Tipping for loan of a pet could be considered in the same category as selling a pet, which is against the ToS.

On the other hand, selling an item is perfectly OK. So it seems possible that tipping for the loan of an item is fine (as selling an item is fine) while tipping for the loan of a pet is not (since selling a pet is not).

I agree. I think there is a distinction that is made between pets and items.

Moonlight Flower · Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:34 pm

I see it this way - it is illegal for the person lending/giving the pet/item/drawing/etc to charge an amount (other than collat. for items) or say things like 'tips appreciated' or anything where they expect or are hinting at wanting extra money.

Although, it is not illegal if the person who recieved the service decided to tip them anyways as a 'thank you'.

So say if someone lent me their Faerie Queen Doll or whatever and I gave it back, then later sent them an item or something as a 'thanks', it wouldn't be illegal. But if when making the trade they asked for a tip or a service charge or something, that would be illegal for them to do. If that makes any sense. XD'

Q · #13 Post by Q » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:41 pm

How about leaving out any of those thoughts and just thinking about how TNT would view you making an offer where it appears you are engaging in paying a fee to someone for use of their item?

Morality and legality aside, your thought should be to protect your account (since TNT always says it's your responsiblilty to protect it).

stampsyne · #14 Post by **stampsyne** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:09 pm

Asking for tips is against the rules. Giving a tip is not.

everconfused · #15 Post by **everconfused** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:00 am

It is against the rules to ask for or to offer a tip -- I've seen people warned for both. If the lendee wants to thank the person for lending an item, then I think that's ok -- as long as there's nothing in writing be it on a board or neomail.

I don't quite understand the editorial answer, as I've seen a couple of people frozen for asking for collateral (not excessive - fair market value of the item).

As for collateral for lending a pet, I can't even begin to understand how anyone would do that. First because there's no guarantee that you'll get the pet (pound sitters), there's no guarantee that you'd get your collateral back even with a successful pet lend, and to me asking for collateral for a pet is the same as selling a pet. Big no-no.