Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:40 am
Morningstar wrote:And Crazed, no offense if I am getting this wrong. However, I see that you are new here. You aren't by any chance from the Neodaq forums, are you? Because someone there is visiting PPT and then going back to the Neodaq forums and slamming PPT members. And not only slamming PPT members but slamming the threads that we've made. I love new PPT members, you can ask anyone around here about that. But, I really don't take too kindly to people coming onto our site just to see what we are talking about and then talk derogatorily about us on their forums. And, hey, I will be the first to say that there are many things I don't like about Neopets, and many of us PPTers make threads about them, but as to this issue I am standing behind TNT's decisions. Not one of us knows just how dangerous a threat TNT was faced with. And instead of crabbing about it, people should be thanking TNT for taking swift action. I don't really feel like a repeat of 4/4/4. And please let me emphasize that the threat might not have been ImproveNeo, but maybe something that also used GreaseMonkey. We users don't know. But, it must have been something serious for Greg to have posted what he did the other night on the Charter forums (of which I quoted a few pages back)
Quote:
What? I have never heard of a company HAVING a legal right to deny customers of service for NO APPARENT reason. Ethically, companies can't do that. Legally, they also can't do that. And just because companies, like Neopets, don't provide any reason doesn't mean they're NOT DISCRIMINATING at all.
If you go into your local hardware store 20 minutes before closing, they can say "sorry, we're closing early"
If you go into a restaurant, they can say "sorry, we were just booked out five minutes before you arrive"
If you go into a petrol station, they can say "sorry, you can pump your own fuel today, I can't be bothered standing up and walking over there"
If you go on a website, they can say "sorry, you had something on your computer which could potentially be a problem for us later on. As stated in our conditions which you agreed to, we can freeze your account without needing to even give a reason"
you obviously don't understand what an "unfair advantage is."
For the last time IT'S NOT GREASEMONKEY ITSELF THAT IS THE PROBLEM. IT IS THE RANDOM PERSON MADE JAVASCRIPT CODES THAT YOU DOWNLOAD AND USE WITH GREASEMONKEY THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Nobody is going to create an internet browser just to slip a cookie grabber in there to steal your Neopets password for pete's sake. Its the small javascript code which any random person can upload and say "It will turn all the images of Jubjubs into pictures of Chias." All it takes is some little 9 year old to come on, think its funny, hit download and lose everything. Sure, it might do what it says, it also might be sending your password to NASA to be launched with the next Space Shuttle .
Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:32 am
I think you missed my point. I answered to someone who said "that companies can deny customers for no reason." And well, you're examples states reasons why companies can't extend their service. Though reason for the 3rd one is quite ridiculous.
Its a producer's right to say "Sorry! Don't want you on my site" if they want to. As long as they aren't solely doing it to black people, or females etc, they're perfectly fine. 99% of companies simply don't do this as its usually not in their best interests in maintaining customers
As per TNT's definition, no I don't clearly understand it as I would like to. Having "unfair advantage" can be interpreted in a lot of ways, such as having this and that technology that can on up you from the game. And sometimes, TNT's wording of rules can leave so much speculation as to what is really they don't want us to do.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:16 pm
the_dog_god wrote:Darth_Coral wrote:...(depending on whether ImproveNeo is installed.), would not be covered by the "terminate immediately and automatically without notice from Neopets" for using "programs such as autobuyers, flash game cheats, autofreshers, and sniper" section of the ToS which seems to have happened to a selected minority? Seems like a bad move by TNT...
If you read the TOS properly, you'll realise that didn't select that minority, they selected every program available on the internet and gave examples of what they don't allow. That's not to say every program on the internet isn't allowed, its just to say that any program that hasn't been cleared by them potentially could get you frozen at Neopets' discretion
Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:36 pm
the_dog_god wrote:
I think you missed my point. I answered to someone who said "that companies can deny customers for no reason." And well, you're examples states reasons why companies can't extend their service. Though reason for the 3rd one is quite ridiculous.
I think you've missed the part where I sayIts a producer's right to say "Sorry! Don't want you on my site" if they want to. As long as they aren't solely doing it to black people, or females etc, they're perfectly fine. 99% of companies simply don't do this as its usually not in their best interests in maintaining customers
It was deliberately ridiculous as you seem to still be arguing the fact that we somehow have gained a right to have that service when this isn't the case. Producers have rights too, and they can excercise them as they see fit. One of those rights is the right to deny service to people they don't want to for there own personal reasons. This usually ends up being places like pubs refusing service to people they don't think should be drinking, but it is in no way limited to that.
Another example might be the fact that somebody at a video store does not want to hire out a video game console to somebody who looks suspicious due to the risk of it being stolen. Most stores will circumvent this by making people leave deposits on new consoles, but that's store policy (for the reason explained below), not law.
Most consumers have this assumption that because they use a service or good, the supplier must bend over backwards to meet their every demand, its not the case. Producers have just as many rights as consumers do, they're just not as well known as the Consumer rights as most people aren't producers and have no need to learn the Producer rights.
The producer has the right to refuse service to people if they feel like it. Provided this isn't because the person is of a certain race that they have been discriminating against eg, it is legal. As I said before, 99.99% of producers will never do this, as it discourages customers from returning and encourages them to spread word to other customers about poor service.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:41 pm
Morningstar wrote:You aren't by any chance from the Neodaq forums, are you? Because someone there is visiting PPT and then going back to the Neodaq forums and slamming PPT members.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:03 pm
Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:01 pm
Morningstar wrote:From the examples I've seen, you could click on an item in your inventory and a popup would show up giving you the user shops with the lowest prices of that particular item. In other words, it was sort of like a super shop wiz without having to pay for it or spend the extra time opening up the shop wiz, typing in the item, and then refreshing the page. If you would like to see examples of it, you can check out improveneo.com. There are some screenshots and a video there of how it works.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:13 pm
Morningstar wrote:Maybe this wasn't even about ImproveNeo, but I have a question for you, Asparagus Queen. ImproveNeo never did get approval by TNT, did it? In fact, according to the various forums I have read, no one ever asked TNT if it was OK to use. And from my interpretation of the posts on various forums, its creators didn't really want TNT to know about ImproveNeo. Just because lots of people decided to use the program doesn't mean that it is safe or allowed by Neopets.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:49 pm
Pwnage1337 wrote:Actually, TNT has been silent on this issue. We've asked for a while, no response. After a while, nothing had happened from them, so we took that as a good sign. And, there was nothing in our posts, at least on the daq, neoitems, and iPricing that show that we were trying to hide this from TNT.
That's cool. Your "new member" status won't prejudice me whatsoever. I hope you didn't take anything personally.crazed wrote:With that I hope that my being 'a new member' doesn't hinder you from reading and understanding my points of argument as I've done to yours and others. And though I post at Neodaq, I am not their representative. My opinions and arguments that I've stated are mine and mine alone.
crazed wrote:I don't think "swift action" is a phrase I would've used. If TNT has been swift, they would've responded to it sooner (like months ago?) and then we wouldn't have users complaining. As it is, they haven't really handled it very well as there are a lot of confusion and questions on the matter.
crazed wrote:
If GreaseMonkey isn't the problem, then why are those who have GM were frozen such as psycho_chick's niece? If TNT wanted to deal with the script that uses GM, then deal with that script and that script alone. If they have a problem with GM, they could've announced that they don't want it and us users could've been warned beforehand. Fine, it's their site and they can do whatever they want to do with it. FINE. Really, I get that and it doesn't have to repeated again and again. However, their actions doesn't mean it doesn't affect us. It does or we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. In the end, I believe they could've handled the situation better.
Asparagus Queen wrote:Morningstar wrote:You aren't by any chance from the Neodaq forums, are you? Because someone there is visiting PPT and then going back to the Neodaq forums and slamming PPT members.
I don't see any slamming of PPT members on the Neodaq forums. If you can point out one spot where there is slamming of PPT members, I will gladly take care of that post.
Cranberry wrote:
Ha, me too! And Morningstar! We're famous.
Like I said, littlemac could be a great guy. He could be a not-so-great guy. Him saying "I am a great guy, really!" isn't going to sway me either way.
the_dog_god wrote:*hugs Cranberry* You took the words right out of my mouth.
Woah it must have been while you were kissing me!
You took the words right out of my mouth
Oh I swear its true I was just about to say I love you
Love you![/meat loaf]
Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:05 pm
Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:07 pm
Morningstar wrote:I know that your neice is only 10 and 10 seems so innocent, but psycho_chick, you might want to make sure that she didn't accidentally get involved with the wrong people and possibly download some program that maybe she shouldn't have. I say this because I have a kid who at the age of 10 was playing Neo and, at the time, she knew all sorts of people who were liars, cheaters, and schemers. I didn't find out about this until recently, but she used to hang out on RS sites and was given the opportunity, on several occasions, to download autobuyers. She was a smart enough cookie never to do so, but they were readily available to her. In addition, I was very good friends with a person here on PPT, who, at the age of 10, had used an autobuyer and had been frozen for it. So, kids who seem innocent may not be. I am not accusing your neice of any illegal activity, but it is good to check out instead of automatically assuming that it was GM that caused the freezing. It could be entirely coincidental.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:10 pm
Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:26 pm
Asparagus Queen wrote:Morningstar wrote:You aren't by any chance from the Neodaq forums, are you? Because someone there is visiting PPT and then going back to the Neodaq forums and slamming PPT members.
I don't see any slamming of PPT members on the Neodaq forums. If you can point out one spot where there is slamming of PPT members, I will gladly take care of that post.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:35 pm
Pwnage1337 wrote: Page 13 has no negative references to PPT. Sure, ansky mentioned PPT threads, mc_crazy mentioned ToS and Fan forums, but that is about it.
Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:40 pm
I just came from the PPT forums. Some seem to agree with the greasemonkey block, some don't. What I thought was funny though, was that the first 6 of 10 threads were complaining about Neopets.
Editorial and Adblocking (can you or can't you? wish neopets would define the rules!!)
Greasemonkey problem (rather obvious)
Glitchiness with Shop Wiz
Ads are back... (people getting ads who have ads blocked)
Are clickies slow or not working? (something about not getting nps when you should have)
What do you miss the most? (discussing the old better Neopets days)
...
Slow page loads?
No new shields last year
Just thought that was amusing... If only Neopets staff would browse fan forums.
Haha. I know, I've read those. It's actually frustrating and amusing at the same time. I mean, come on. Stop plastering/saying "but it's in the TOS!!! TNT said so! ", when TNT's TOS/rules isn't really clear to begin with and you guys were complaining too, SEE? Rolling Eyes