Proposed General Chat Clean Up (Update: 29/1)

[Alex]

Warning: The following post seems to be rather large. I'm just reading the thread and typing out my opinions after each post, so I'll undoubtedbly post something that's already been mentioned. Sorry!

A Neopets Dailies (sub)forum where post count doesn't increase is created for all dailies threads.

I like this. More on this later.

What to do with the daily news postings? The general consensus is that these should stay, but should they operate similar to the Turmaculus threads? Perhaps if there is nothing of any discussion value on them, they should be removed a few days after their release?

Keep them. They're good, and although they're redundant after a few days, the discussion on them is good.
It's also useful for those who don't check the news constantly (me!), and I've been made aware of a few things because of these threads.

Does this topic make my butt look big?

If I tell you my honest opinion will you make me sleep on the couch?

Similar to the dailies thread, should there be a thread for minor bugs and glitches?

I don't think so. IIRC, there's not been that many *minor* ones, and the major ones need attention so people are aware there's a (new) problem, rather than just thinking "Oh, someone's complaining about x not working which they can live without."

We could create a new board dedicated for Neopets news only.

That also works. What about a thread each week for the NT? I know that a lot of the time, the editorial gets discussion. (If the editorial was also posted in full in the thread, it may make it easier to look up TNT's response to certain questions via the forum search).

The threads that are split over and over and over again, with absolutely no conversation other than "I got this, I got that, I got this..." (meteor, petpet lab, screenshots, expellibox) get on my nerves. I'll often pop in to see if anything new has happened, and don't like sifting through all of those because quite frankly I don't care what everybody got (sorry!). My only exception to this rule is Tarla, Turmaculus, and Freebies because they are alerts and I wouldn't've known to check without seeing one at the top of the page.

It would probably be easier to move all of the "I got 20np from Wheel of Infinite Posting" (and other semi-daily type) posts into a single gloat/cry thread - which would probably not need to be split, as there's are no real results that arise from those sorts of posts, and the forum makes it trivial to jump to any desired page of a topic.

I can't STAND these posts. The general Gloat/Cry thread, yes, but it's not necessary for people to post saying what they got from the meteor, the wheels, etc, in a new post. I just see it as people trying to rasie their post counts. And unless you get a huge win or something, nobody's going to comment on your post anyway.

Perhaps Yukio could make a more visible way to trigger Turmaculus alerts via the main website, sparing the forum from those threads

I like this idea - somewhat similar to AvLog? But I don't actually look at the main website a lot of the time, so I'd miss it.

Yes - just on a sidenote about Tarla - I have been the last person to post on a Tarla thread, then she comes back and no-one else has posted, I have then double-posted to move the thread so other's know that it is active. I have had my posts joined and got the 'don't double-post' message. Is there anyway to avoid this in future?

In the past, I've deleted my earlier post, and then reposted it with the new post as well so then it registers as new.
However, perhaps there could be exception from mods in circumstances like this? If it's clear from the thread - and only in said thread - that you're not double posting for the sake of it, it may be able to 'slip through the cracks'.
Of course I'm not a mod so I have no idea whetehr this would work or not.

(Just realised that munduses posted this too. Told you I'd repeat stuff.)

Aaaand that appears to be all of it so far. Cookies if you got all the way through!

[Daze]

Actually I PMed May about this very issue a while back. She gave me a nice tip: copy your text from your last post, then delete the whole thing, then post a new reply and paste the old text + add the new text. This way it'll show up as a "new" post.

Great idea, it is a shame no-one explained this method before. I will definitely use it.

[Alex]

Am I correct in assuming the 'Neopets Reporting' subforum is where the dailies threads will go?

[TDG]

Am I correct in assuming the 'Neopets Reporting' subforum is where the dailies threads will go?

Yup. Moving things over now

[Daze]

After initial say Yes to Tarla being in the new subforum(had a blonde moment and thought it was being stickied in General), I can see it is going to be a little awkward see straightaway if an Alert is current - having to open up the subforum to see it.

I have a few PPT Forums already in my Favourites folder (General Chat is 1 of my 4 Home Pages that open as soon as I load IE), which means it only took a quick glance at any new topics or Alerts.

I rely on these Alerts or seeing it on a Chat/Guild board as the Toolbar refuses to work properly for me. I always get 2 errors when trying to shut IE down when the Toolbar is used.

I think that Tarla might be better to stay in General.

Overall, the Subforum is a great idea and I will use it regularly.

[Lee]

Oooo that really cleaned it up!

[stampsyne]

I have to stop and ask what General Chat is for? It used to be a place to talk about Neopets; in general. You can see if there was a plot, if the news was up, or if there was anything interesting going on that is not specifically related to the other sub-forums. It was active and lively.

What we have now are pre-defined sickies, many posts on news, and the seldomly asked odd question. It's turning into a preverbal wasteland. While I believe that some overactive topics should get a sticky elsewhere, I worry that GC could be sterilized to the point of having no appealing use. I think that line is well crossed when General Chat could acurately be be called (both official and individual) News.

[Mongrel]

I think there are a lot of topics that are "ONLY Discussion that doesnt fit anywhere else." What will Neopets look like in five years, what should be revamped next on the site, has anyone ever done anything with Neovision, check out the promotional ads, bemoan the lack of Ogrins on the site, how do people think Kyra Reppen's doing as the head of Neopets, will the pound ever come back up....There's a lot of discussion that hasn't been sectioned off. The Customization board was requested by users, and I'm glad most of the Daily threads are going to their own board--they were cluttersome and I don't read them. The Avatar stuff, while not as voluminous as the other stuff, is much more nicely organized because it's a hobby and collecting has become easier now. Overall I approve of the restructuring, although only time will show how it changes PPT.

[Rubywinged]

I think there are a lot of topics that are "ONLY Discussion that doesnt fit anywhere else." What will Neopets look like in five years, what should be revamped next on the site, has anyone ever done anything with Neovision, check out the promotional ads, bemoan the lack of Ogrins on the site, how do people think Kyra Reppen's doing as the head of Neopets, will the pound ever come back up....There's a lot of discussion that hasn't been sectioned off. The Customization board was requested by users, and I'm glad most of the Daily threads are going to their own board--they were cluttersome and I don't read them. The Avatar stuff, while not as voluminous as the other stuff, is much more nicely organized because it's a hobby and collecting has become easier now. Overall I approve of the restructuring, although only time will show how it changes PPT.

If I can point something out. (while not against the change in any way myself) I feel the need to say that most of what you suggested could be put on this board is not true. Because anytime I have made threads containing a question such as 'what will neopets look like in five years' it gets moved to the polls thread. even if it could have rounded itself into a discussion it is concidered a poll by mods. (i'm not saying this isnt right by the mods im just saying) And so most of what you just said would be on this board would infact not be.

I do think GC needed a bit of a clean up because there where SO many 'i got....' style threads it just makes them eaiser to find. I dont know if GC will really start to thrive over this somehow I doubt it because I dont feel is was thriving before seeing as so many topics have there own boards. I mean yes i could come here and ask a question. Tho this is actally not the area for asking questions either. I think I'd like to see one of the other topics put back into GC only because in a way I do have to agree there isnt much talking that happens here anymore. Prehaps the 'polls' could be relaxed as in unless asking would you rather win Apples or Oranges from the wheel of fruit (or an actual poll at the top) it could maybe come to GC. Meaning when someone asks 'what kind of new paint brush would you like to see!' it could be here.

As i said tho I am not really against the GC cleanup but I do feel there isnt much in this thread anymore. We don't have any real 'hot topics' besides the dailys... so maybe something could be brought back in? Just a thought.

[metalmario]

Yall bring up an excellent point, I've seen it happen to other forums outside of the Neopets fandom. The "main" board is busy at one point, and eventually 5 sub-boards sprout up to categorize things. The users want to talk about all 5 things but don't really want to check all 5 places so they stick to just checking the main board. Less threads --> less active --> eventual death. :/

I agree that the dailies threads are very cluttering (especially with splits) but I think a lot of the Neopets Polls, Help, and Plot threads could turn into decent discussions or at least good for tips & tricks sharing. I know I for one only check GC, but am interested in other boards... just never get around to checking them all. I know my chances of ever catching Turmy are pretty much zilch with it in the new board because I don't post in daily threads (save G&C which is oddly still here) so I will probably rarely visit it.

[TDG]

If I can point something out. (while not against the change in any way myself) I feel the need to say that most of what you suggested could be put on this board is not true. Because anytime I have made threads containing a question such as 'what will neopets look like in five years' it gets moved to the polls thread. even if it could have rounded itself into a discussion it is concidered a poll by mods. (i'm not saying this isnt right by the mods im just saying) And so most of what you just said would be on this board would infact not be.

Actually, I believe that example is our fault. The polls forum should be for questions that have definitive answers such as "Which pet do you like most?", "Which bank account do you have?" and "Do you have a gallery?"

Things like "Where do you see Neopets in five years?" should remain in General Chat as it is far more of a discussion/opinions topic than a question/answer topic. I dunno, maybe I'm in the wrong but that's what I thought. I'll bring it up with the other mods and see what the deal is.

In light of some of the suggestions here + some things I've noticed post-changes, I've shuffled some more stuff. It could all end up going back - its kind of a beta playing around period here.

I've moved Tarla back into General Chat as she's only in for a few minutes and its far more likely that people will see the alert in the GC than in the Dailies forum. For now, I've left Turmy threads in the Dailies forum. I'd really like some opinions on the new system - a single thread to be posted on, much like the Tarla thread. Do you think it works? Should it be in the Dailies forum? etc. Its a lot neater than the previous system, but I'm wondering if it too should be in the GC and the Dailies forum just be Dailies, not alerts.

Something we thought we'd try is a weekly news thread. Instead of a single topic for every day of news, there is a topic for the week which is stickied during that week and then unstickied at the beginning of the next week (but left unlocked so discussion can continue). This would also be the main place for Editorial Discussion unless a question merits particular attention.

The pets/petpet matching has been put into Neopets Customisation to limit the number of stickies in the GC. I think broadening the forum to a wider pet look discussion forum will mean there's more use to that forum. Thoughts?

Finally, I'd just like the comment on the current state of the General Chat (bearing in mind that this, and the vast majority of this post, is my own personal opinion). It basically talks about the subject as stampsyne's post because I think its an incredibly good point. What is the point of the general chat now that we have these other forums? Looking through the last few pages of the GC, its very much just news posts. Problem is, its been like that for a while. I dunno if its just a downfall in discussion, lack of special news on Neopets or whether it is a case of too many things being moved into other forums - but it seems as if the General Chat has really fallen in its number active discussions. Moving all the "I got a..." topics to a different forum shouldn't remove the bulk of the "discussion" topics in General Chat - mainly because there isn't any discussion on those threads.
Quite a few people limit their reading about Neopets stuff to this forum, and it seems to me that therefore, the General Chat should have more to it than just the news etc. I really don't have any great ideas for fixing the problem. Personally I like the idea of having some more discussion orientated topics remain in the General Chat, even if they would possibly fit more under a different forum's category, but then those forums drop in activity too. Do we somehow encourage people to post more General Discussion in General Chat and encourage people to check the other forums more? Do we change the General Chat to a News forum and let everything else be spread in the other forums? As I said, I don't have a great solution to it.

Oh well, just my sleep-deprived 2:00am posted thoughts...

[Alex]

If I can point something out. (while not against the change in any way myself) I feel the need to say that most of what you suggested could be put on this board is not true. Because anytime I have made threads containing a question such as 'what will neopets look like in five years' it gets moved to the polls thread. even if it could have rounded itself into a discussion it is concidered a poll by mods. (i'm not saying this isnt right by the mods im just saying) And so most of what you just said would be on this board would infact not be.

Actually, I believe that example is our fault. The polls forum should be for questions that have definitive answers such as "Which pet do you like most?", "Which bank account do you have?" and "Do you have a gallery?"

Things like "Where do you see Neopets in five years?" should remain in General Chat as it is far more of a discussion/opinions topic than a question/answer topic. I dunno, maybe I'm in the wrong but that's what I thought. I'll bring it up with the other mods and see what the deal is.

IMO, I think topics that actually *have* a poll in them should be in Neo Polls. Obviously ones that are clear polls but either don't fit, or it's not appropriate for them to be a poll (eg. What's your favourite pet; What pets do you have - where there's too many options for a poll), would also go in there too.

Otherwise, topics that could be viewed as a poll, but ultimately would have more discussion rather than a straight up answer - such as 'What would Neopets look like in 5 years' should stay in General Chat, to keep it more alive, and more discussion based.

I've moved Tarla back into General Chat as she's only in for a few minutes and its far more likely that people will see the alert in the GC than in the Dailies forum. For now, I've left Turmy threads in the Dailies forum. I'd really like some opinions on the new system - a single thread to be posted on, much like the Tarla thread. Do you think it works? Should it be in the Dailies forum? etc. Its a lot neater than the previous system, but I'm wondering if it too should be in the GC and the Dailies forum just be Dailies, not alerts.

I think both Turmy and Tarla should be in GC, but that's it. I like the way everything else is (particularly the movement of G&C) in Dailies.
Turmy - I'm undecided on whether it should be a single thread, or a new thread. I honestly have no problems with the way it is at the moment (except for said suggestion about movement) - perhaps trial it for a couple of weeks, see if it works, and if it doesn't, change it back?

Something we thought we'd try is a weekly news thread. Instead of a single topic for every day of news, there is a topic for the week which is stickied during that week and then unstickied at the beginning of the next week (but left unlocked so discussion can continue). This would also be the main place for Editorial Discussion unless a question merits particular attention.

Honestly, I do like the way it is run now (while we're at the subforums, perhaps one for news threads?) - but I acknowledge that could possibly cause more clutter. Again, like the Turmy, perhaps trial this for 3-4 weeks and see what the general reaction is.

However, I have found that each week there's typically one or two editorial questions that people comment on, so I really would like to see each editorial in its own thread, posted in full (as I believe I've mentioned before - if only because it's helpful for searching). This is just my own opinion though, and I respect the moderators' decision if they choose to keep it in the aforementioned way.

The pets/petpet matching has been put into Neopets Customisation to limit the number of stickies in the GC. I think broadening the forum to a wider pet look discussion forum will mean there's more use to that forum. Thoughts?

Yes. Yes yes yes. For starters, the stickies were starting to get extensive, but also the new boards are extremely dead currently (although there's not a whole lot we can do about the Avatar one, given the lack of avatars *released*). I do think it needs more topics there - however, as I haven't even put a *background* on my pet - it's not an area I'm interested in - I have no idea.

I did briefly just entertain the idea of, if it was to be a more 'pet look' forum, moving beauty contest threads there, then realised that was slightly too much of a stretch. (Thoughts, though?)

Finally, I'd just like the comment on the current state of the General Chat (bearing in mind that this, and the vast majority of this post, is my own personal opinion). It basically talks about the subject as stampsyne's post because I think its an incredibly good point. What is the point of the general chat now that we have these other forums? Looking through the last few pages of the GC, its very much just news posts. Problem is, its been like that for a while. I dunno if its just a downfall in discussion, lack of special news on Neopets or whether it is a case of too many things being moved into other forums - but it seems as if the General Chat has really fallen in its number active discussions. Moving all the "I got a..." topics to a different forum shouldn't remove the bulk of the "discussion" topics in General Chat - mainly because there isn't any discussion on those threads.
Quite a few people limit their reading about Neopets stuff to this forum, and it seems to me that therefore, the General Chat should have more to it than just the news etc. I really don't have any great ideas for fixing the problem. Personally I like the idea of having some more discussion orientated topics remain in the General Chat, even if they would possibly fit more under a different forum's category, but then those forums drop in activity too. Do we somehow encourage people to post more General Discussion in General Chat and encourage people to check the other forums more? Do we change the General Chat to a News forum and let everything else be spread in the other forums? As I said, I don't have a great solution to it.

I think I've touched on this earlier with my Neo Polls suggestion, but I honestly can't think of any solutions either. I do think it doesn't help there hasn't been a whole lot of stuff happening on Neopets itself, which is resulting in a lack of activity and newer members here. I guess part of the problem is trying to keep the balance between organisation and diversity of posts, vs. being so organised that the main board becomes useless.

Oh well, just my sleep-deprived 2:00am posted thoughts...

I'll see you those 2am thoughts and post my 1am thoughts.

[Daze]

I have to stop and ask what General Chat is for? It used to be a place to talk about Neopets; in general. You can see if there was a plot, if the news was up, or if there was anything interesting going on that is not specifically related to the other sub-forums. It was active and lively.

This is how I am feeling (and have felt for awhile) about GC.

It is getting harder and harder to know what the 'right' thread is or if the topic has been covered elsewhere (which needs a long and sometimes painful read through other topics).

Take for example the topic, "Draiks just got a whole lot rarer. o.o", it was locked and we were told that a discussion was already taking place in the news. I wouldn't have known, as I do not check the news thread much after the first read. Sometimes to add a comment, but never to have a long discussion.

Individual topics need to be allowed to have a life here in GC - I do not like having to 'add' my comment to someone elses topic if my own is a little different and could bring about a new discussion on the subject.

I know we need to stop the spam posts, but at the moment, GC is boring (whereas, you could come here on any day last year and have a 6 or so different topics to read) and all I can say is thank god for a plot.

GC will die if we cannot post a relevant topic for ourselves, instead of always having to stick to stickies or check every.single.thread. for any subject that may be similar to ours.

I will see both the 1am and the 2am thoughts and raise a midnight rant on 4 hours sleep the previous night.

[Alex]

Take for example the topic, "Draiks just got a whole lot rarer. o.o", it was locked and we were told that a discussion was already taking place in the news. I wouldn't have known, as I do not check the news thread much after the first read. Sometimes to add a comment, but never to have a long discussion.

I think the problem is that the news thread also covered the editorial in it, too (which is where it came from).

I agree; it's sometimes unclear about what's to go where, and it can be quite frustrating to search for a post - the only reason I knew the Draik discussion was going on in that thread is I suspected it would as editorials have been discussed their previously - but a new member to the forum isn't going to know that.

Due to said 1am time, my brain isn't coming up with a viable solution to this in any case - I'm actually trying to come up with one, but I can't think of a feasible one where there's *some* overlap of topics. I guess it depends how much is going to be permitted? :/

[Daze]

I think the problem is that the news thread also covered the editorial in it, too (which is where it came from).

I actually forgot that is was in the Editorial - maybe the topic in the news thread could have been moved? It really wasn't related to the news as such (as in, it wasn't posted on the news). The thread then disintegrated into ramblings of balloons?, that I for one cannot stand to scroll through to find any relevant information.

I remember someone suggesting a few months ago to post a seperate Editorial board but I believe that idea was rejected.

This is just one of the many tough decisions for mods.